Author Topic: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...  (Read 1039 times)

Offline humble

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A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« on: August 05, 2008, 01:32:04 PM »
I'm always facinated by the various complaints on vulching, HO's, picking etc...

Now I realize that this is a game and not real life. Personally I almost never HO, only pick on those rare occasions my A-20 gets to your base at 12k without getting picked and simply suck at vulching (but I'm always up for a good vulch :D). However the simple reality is that all these were the norm and not the exception if circumstances permitted. I've attached the link for a good overall accounting of exactly the type of combat we see here all the time (obviously not the norm for the allies but the germans suffered this all the time late in the war).

http://352ndfg.com/Y-29/main.htm

There are a number of pilot logs linked, I've attached just one (Bill Whisner 15.5 total victories). His squadron is literally rolling on a mission as the german attack rolls in so they are engaging almost coming of the runway with full fuel loads. A found a few things to be very interesting:

1) Things happened so fast that even an experienced combat pilot forgot to arm his guns initially
2) He flew most of the engagement with an oil leak and missing a control surface
3) He engaged in multiple HO's
4) He actually aimed at, shot and killed two german pilots attempting to bail from planes he'd damaged

I think this is a pretty good account of the realities of combat flying from the view of a guy who was obviously a predator. While I'm uncomfortable with the thought of gunning down pilots attempting to bail from cripples I feel this way 60+ years after the fact and from the safetly of my desk. I'd say that this was the reality for many pilots on all sides...

http://352ndfg.com/Y-29/Whisner.htm

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 01:46:53 PM »
I think most of the people who complain about vulching are not saying it didn't happen historically, but that it's bad for gameplay.  The same criticism is made of boom and zoom flying (because a luffberry is so exciting).  Personally, I don't mind a good vulch now and then, but it's a dumb thing to do when there's just a few guys defending a base and vulching causes them to go somewhere else.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 01:49:50 PM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline evenhaim

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 01:52:35 PM »
I can understand german killing german pilots near your home base, they may have posed a threat.
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Offline FullPwr

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 02:05:34 PM »
I'm Not Sure How Good The Info on The "show" Dogfights..But Have Seen A Couple Of WW2 Vets..Mentioning.
Ho's..Hitting Lifting Planes...As Far As Ingame..I Try To Play By The Standard We Had In Ah1..No Hoing..But Its Kinda Hard When It Seems That When On A merge..I See Tracers Coming..As Far As The Vulching With The Field Ack The Way It Is Now..Its Not Profitable As In Ah1 Which I See As A Good Thing..

Offline 2bighorn

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 02:06:02 PM »
There are guys who play for the fight and there are those who play for the kill. Personal choice, either is OK in my book.

Offline FiLtH

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 02:06:33 PM »
  Although the thought disturbs me a little, if I fought a guy who was really good, and somehow forced him to bail out, I'd be real tempted to make sure he never left the plane so I wouldnt have to face him again.

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Offline ian5440

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 02:08:57 PM »
The same criticism is made of boom and zoom flying (because a luffberry is so exciting). 

the only people who complain about BnZ is the ones who either dont know how to counter it or just fly Hurr, Spits, or Zeros  :D
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Offline MajIssue

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 02:21:28 PM »
good read... :aok
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 03:09:34 PM »
I think alot of people kid on 200 about being vulched, I know i do when its a joker but often times i get up and shoot them all down :rock
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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 03:12:07 PM »
Even the great Chuck Yeager said that it was un-sportsmen like to vulch that 262. that being said he was fighting in a real war not a videogame.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 03:18:16 PM »
In real life there was the HUGE factor of attrition. Every plane or pilot destroyed today was one less of a very finite number that may kill you tomorrow somewhere else. So vulching was part of the overall required conditions for ultimate victory and that big boat ride home to wife and baby. Attrition is not modelled in AH, until it is, vulching is just vulching, you are going to either see why vulching for its own sake is poor for gameplay or not. But, comparing vulching in real life to vulching in a game is nonsensical.
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Offline evenhaim

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 03:28:26 PM »
the only people who complain about BnZ is the ones who either dont know how to counter it or just fly Hurr, Spits, or Zeros  :D
WTf are you trying to say, i hate bnz tards,I fly 109s and can handle my own thanks...
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Offline bizz

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 03:31:27 PM »
If you dont want to get vulched dont up from a capped field. The nice thing about AHII is you can move to a different airlfield 25 or more miles away with a click of a mouse and avoid the vulch. Real life WWII pilots didnt have that luxury. But even if it is a dweeb tactic in the game vulching is a lot of fun :aok
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Offline sethipus

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 03:44:34 PM »
I think most of the people who complain about vulching are not saying it didn't happen historically, but that it's bad for gameplay.  The same criticism is made of boom and zoom flying (because a luffberry is so exciting).  Personally, I don't mind a good vulch now and then, but it's a dumb thing to do when there's just a few guys defending a base and vulching causes them to go somewhere else.

Vulching is part of base taking.  If your base is being vulched, take off from the next base over and show up with some altitude and start picking vulchers.  This isn't rocket science, people.  No, when your base is being attacked you don't have the God-given right to up a plane from your own runways - you have to earn it.  ;-)

Offline Roundeye

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Re: A bit of history for you "vulch whinners" out there...
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 04:22:20 PM »
Vulching, ack hugging and HOing were all done in real combat and have uses in this GAME as well. 

Vulching planes trying to up when you are engaged in taking a base is just common sense.  Why on Earth let someone even get close to the attack planes working a town of worse yet near a goon or troops?  Kill and discourage them before they even become a threat.

Ack hugging.  If you lose an advantage  (or start out disadvantaged), why not make it suicidal to chase you while you extend to come back with better odds?

HOing.  This one has been whined about more than anything.  Its use has been well documented in countless WWII air combat books.  It was a tactic used by all countries at some point.  It's use in the game is questionable to some.

I see it like this:  Like it or not, it takes 2 to HO.  HO merges can be avoided and you can even use that avoiding move to instantly give you an advantage by starting the turn/climb first.  If you get shot in the face, it's your own fault.  Period.

There is one time I see HO as a very valid and acceptable tactic in AHII and that is where it was used the most by fighters in real combat.   That would be when you are lower and are being dove down upon by someone with superior E.  You turn into them and blast em in the face (note: this maneuver is well explained in "Fire In The Sky", page 242).   Otherwise, you have no hope of ever mounting them if they are smart enough to keep their E.  Your only hope would be a snapshot if you can get one fast enough while coming around from your move to avoid the pass.  You would have to be incredibly fast to swing your guns around and nail em while they rapidly fly away from you. 

People that whine about this stuff amuse me.  I interpret the whines as follows:

Whine: "you vulch tard"  Meaning:  "I don't know any better than to try to up at a capped field"

Whine: "ack hugger"  Meaning:  "I don't know any better than to follow you into the ack"

Whine: "HO tard"  Meaning:  "I don't know any better than to fly right into your guns"  OR "WAAAHHHHHH...I came in with all the cards and now I'm in the tower"...sniff sniff. :cry


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