Author Topic: HTC: long range dots are way too easy to see (Read 563 times)

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2001, 10:44:00 AM »

Why would it be sooo hard to have ENEMY contacts SHOW as only THE plane.. without some BIG BILLBOARD above them? eh?... why?

Quote: "No thanks. Doesn't sound like fun considering each and every side has the exact same planeset. "Oooo La7..." Get into firing distance "Crap he's on MY side"

THis is an easy fix,... NORMAL ICON MODE for ALL Friendly AIRCRAFT/GV/people

NO ICONS for enemy... It wouldnt take long to know that becuase you DO NOT see an ICON, you know that that con you are seeing is ENEMY.

..

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2001, 10:49:00 AM »

"NO ICONS for enemy..."

Eh... don't think so.
-SW

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »

why not? too hard? too realistic? or what?

whats the reasoning behind the NO answer?

Iconless fights are more engaging,

Situational awareness needs to be UP to your highest level (more like reality),

CAMOFLAUGE on planes will actually play a ROLE (terrian blending) etc...

The concept of LOSE sight LOSE the fight will REALLY become more true here.

Why would this be so UN-good?

I see nothing wrong with getting rid of Enemy icons... I think its time we start fighting the OTHER plane instead of the HUGE "laser range finder" PLACARD above them.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:38:00 AM »

Wake up... we aren't in the plane's cockpit.. we don't have the luxury of seeing these planes at real size.

Being able to better judge closure rates, speed, attitude and heading like real pilots can.

This is all scaled down to fit on a flat monitor.

This has been discussed before. There is nothing realistic about unrealistically taking away icons that are unrealistically 1/500th the size of the real planes.
-SW

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:39:00 AM »

DeeZCamp,

Quote

why not? too hard? too realistic? or what?
whats the reasoning behind the NO answer?

Iconless fights are more engaging,

Situational awareness needs to be UP to your highest level (more like reality),

CAMOFLAUGE on planes will actually play a ROLE (terrian blending) etc...

The concept of LOSE sight LOSE the fight will REALLY become more true here.

Why would this be so UN-good?

I see nothing wrong with getting rid of Enemy icons... I think its time we start fighting the OTHER plane instead of the HUGE "laser range finder" PLACARD above them.

No, it is not more realistic. You seem to be one of those who sees anything that is harder as more realistic.

In reality my visual field and resolution is much, much better than it is on a 19" monitor with simple polygonal graphics.

Furthermore, due to the lack of depth perception, it would get very frusterating to try to guess if the dot you're looking at is:

1) A friendly aircraft more than D6.0 away from you.
2) An enemy aircraft that is extending away from you.
3) A friendly aircraft that is suffering an icon visability bug.

Your "Realism", isn't.

You're elitism is annoying and preposterous.

The icon system can definately be improved, but eliminating them is not feasible with current technology.

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:52:00 AM »

yeah karnak.. im soo0o0o elite, I guess I am just better right?..

I must have some strange ability to See what you cannot? I dont know why this is the cause..

I have NO problem at all with my vision to SEE and determine The location and DEPTH/Field of view,

You know what... THIS isnt even about what my vision is you putz..

you are not able to visually aquire a target becuse you rely on your icon system. SO be it, You call it what you will, I call it more realistic,and more challenging without the Big "HERE I AM SIGNS"...

Like I said before... I think we should move away from fighting Icons.. and start fighting Planes... You seem to prefere the Icons.

As for the wakeup BS that you are spewing again SW,.. I think you need to have your eyes checked... I think it is very VERY easy to determine velocity, range, and Plane type without Icons when in ACM... perhaps you are also relying on the Icons abit too much.

PS. ZOOM function works wonders if the planes arent big enough for ya.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:55:00 AM »

Sorry jack-o... I've flown many a night in H2H without icons. I flew in the first Assassins vs FDBs duel without icons on and scored 3 kills using a single 20mm in a 109.

What you are talking about has been discussed ad nauseum by much more qualified and intelligent people than you or me. Until VR glasses are 100% working and work well, icons of some shape must remain.

EDIT: My eyes are better than 20/20 according to my last physical. I can see planes no problem without icons. But atleast half of the other players have glasses or are color blind or something else.
-SW

[ 07-25-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Drex · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:48:00 PM »

I see another reason why Icons are good. A good population of our community are people on the later parts of their lives and their vision isn't what it use to be when they were my age. I being 28 have the vision of a hawk. I have no problem seeing through the illusion of making a 3d environment on a 2d surface. I can see the variables change such as closure rate, what degree the enemies wings are tilted, and can mentaly register where and what distance the plane is to me, and roughly the E state. The older player just can't visually process the information without icons. They could get better over time, but it would be very frustrating. Now take the information of 1 plane near you and multiply that by 10-20 and you can see how difficult it would be. The icons help tremendously with being able to see the large geometry of the battle. not just the close fight.

So my solution is backwards from most. I say Icons are a must at longer ranges to make up for not being in the plane and having actual depth, sense of speed, and the other factors we are trying to simulate. But when you get within a certain distance(whatever that may be d1-d0 for example) the Icons should be removed. I think the visual quality of the planes at close range are very good and it is quite easy to see what the other guy is doing.

But again im a pup with good eye sight.

Drex

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2001, 01:06:00 PM »

Agree 100000000% drex,.. Icons could be on for First visual ques.. and then when within close combat,... they should be off...

my eyesight is 20/15 so I understand what you are saying about the Older people maybe not having the same visual acuteness and I understand.

You took the time to actually give a realistic knowledgable reason as to why it could be hard on others <S>

And I agree that WHEN in close combat.. THE planes are so clear that, Even those with not the greatest sight could see just fine.

Icons off could be turned off 2k and under.

other times keep them on.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2001, 01:08:00 PM »

I'll be damned if I didn't say the same thing as Drex well before he did.

Well whatever.
-SW

Drex · « **Reply #25 on:** July 25, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »

Yep, I started the reply before your one above mine. I just don't have the time at work to pound on the keyboard in one sitting. Do a bit here, and a bit there then post it. When the page refreshes, I am always repeating someone. Reason I don't post very much. I never have an original idea by the time it hits the press.

Drex

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2001, 02:04:00 PM »

Meant it towards Deezcamp, not you Drex.
-SW

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »

I saw drex's Post before yours Wulf

Karnak · « **Reply #28 on:** July 25, 2001, 03:13:00 PM »

My vision is fine.

However I can't see which way the wings are going or whether I am gaining or losing distance on the bogey when he is rendered as a single black pixel.

Unfortunately aircraft are rendered as single black pixels at distances that in reality would be servicable for telling closure and wing orientation, if not actual aircraft type.

Tac · « **Reply #29 on:** July 25, 2001, 05:40:00 PM »

"No thanks. Doesn't sound like fun considering each and every side has the exact same planeset. "Oooo La7..." Get into firing distance "Crap he's on MY side"

what are you talking about? have you seen ww2ol's icon system? Friendly icons show, enemy icons show up.. but have no laserrangefinder.. the icon fonts are almost transparent at long range and become increasingly visible as range closes. at close range its a freaking neon sign. In AH id say this would happen at around d1.0.

This would fix the range finder problem AND the billboard icons giving away other players in a split second. How many times you looked all 720 degrees snapping the views around not really LOOKING but just watching out for a red icon?