South Osetia under attack

[Elfie]

Why wouldn't the Germans use Nemmerdorf as an example of what the USSR was doing?

The links that back up that article either don't work or are in languages other than English. Try again comrade.

[Boroda]

"LOL 100,000+ ethnic Japanese in 1941." - we staged the attack on Pearl Harbor too for just this purpose... good grief 

LOL USSR didn't put ethnic Germans into prison camps in 1941, while there were accidents when German colonists in the Ukraine shoot Soviet soldiers at the back.

And you guys got 100000 innocent people into prison camps for 4 years. WTG freedom and democracy.

[Boroda]

Why wouldn't the Germans use Nemmerdorf as an example of what the USSR was doing?

The links that back up that article either don't work or are in languages other than English. Try again comrade.

Learn some other language. Your ignorance is your problem not mine.

[Elfie]

LOL 100,000+ ethnic Japanese in 1941.

They were interred in camps yes, however it wasn't because of their political views. It was believed that they were a security risk during the war and that is why they were interred. Was it right? No.

Angela Davis:

She first achieved nationwide notoriety when a weapon registered in her name was linked to the murder of Judge Harold Haley during an effort to free a black convict that was being tried for the attempted retaliatory murder of a white prison guard who killed three unarmed black inmates; this escape was staged by the Black Panthers and the Soledad Brothers. She fled underground, and was the subject of an intense manhunt. Davis was eventually captured, arrested, tried, and then acquitted in one of the most famous trials in recent U.S. history.

Arrested for a crime, tried, found innocent and released.

Leonard Peltier:

Leonard Peltier (born September 12, 1944) is a Native American activist and member of the American Indian Movement. In 1977 he was convicted and sentenced to two consecutive terms of life imprisonment for the murder of two FBI Agents who died during a 1975 shoot-out on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.

In prison for the crime of murder, specifically the murder of 2 FBI agents.

[Elfie]

Learn some other language. Your ignorance is your problem not mine.

Do you read German?

[Bear76]

LOL USSR didn't put ethnic Germans into prison camps in 1941, while there were accidents when German colonists in the Ukraine shoot Soviet soldiers at the back.

And you guys got 100000 innocent people into prison camps for 4 years. WTG freedom and democracy.

Sad event true enough. How many of the 100,000 + German soldiers captured at Stalingrad returned home? About 5,000. I suppose the rest could have become Russian citizens lol. Every country has events, especially in times of war, that were wrong with tragic results. I'm not in denial about it.

[Elfie]

Every country has events, especially in times of war, that were wrong with tragic results.

Exactly. There is only one person here that is in denial that I have seen. I won't mention any names but his initials are Comrade Boroda. 

[lasersailor184]

I have told many times that I am all for Totalitarianism. How can anyone leave vital decision to uneducated crowd?

Oooh you're right. "Democracy" is their way to make voters responsible for their decisions. Now we finally came to the situation where "Democracy is a power of elite that calls itself democratic".

It stops speaking to it's intellectual superiors or it gets the hose.

[Elfie]

It stops speaking to it's intellectual superiors or it gets the hose.

 

[Hangtime]

LOL USSR didn't put ethnic Germans into prison camps in 1941, while there were accidents when German colonists in the Ukraine shoot Soviet soldiers at the back.

And you guys got 100000 innocent people into prison camps for 4 years. WTG freedom and democracy.

Hmmmmmm... I wonder how many russians are still in our concentration camp and detention centers in brooklyn. We didn't have to round them up, btw; they just showed up at the gates.

...seems they like livin in crapholes.

[Masherbrum]

LOL USSR didn't put ethnic Germans into prison camps in 1941, while there were accidents when German colonists in the Ukraine shoot Soviet soldiers at the back.

And you guys got 100000 innocent people into prison camps for 4 years. WTG freedom and democracy.

In 1941, the two countries were bound by the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact".   But prior to NKVD Order 7161, they were shot.   But after Order 7161, the following was common.

Thanks to opening of the Russian archives the fates of some of these civilians have been made known, by late 1996 the German Red Cross had received from Russia 199,000 records of deported German civilians who had either been repatriated or died in Soviet captivity.

An example of a case record is that of Pauline Gölner; her records reveal that she was born in 1926 in Wolkendorf in Transylvania, was arrested on January 15, 1945 and sent to forced labor in the coal mines of Chanchenkowo (Ukraine) where she died on February 26, 1949, at only 23 years old.

[Elfie]

After 1991 and the fall of the Soviet Union, new sources became available and the dominant view among scholars became that the massacre was embellished, and actually exploited, by Goebbels in an attempt to stir up civilian resistance to the advancing Soviet Army. Bernhard Fisch, in his book Nemmersdorf, October 1944. What actually happened in East Prussia (the first book to also include the Russian view of the event) was the first to present this picture of the events. Fisch, an East Prussian and a soldier at the time, had been in Nemmersdorf a few days after it was re-taken, and remembered a totally different scene from the one depicted by the Wochenschau.[11] He interviewed many witnesses still alive on both sides (e.g., Soviet General Kuzma N. Galitsky, former commander of 11th Guards Army) and crossing out faulty memories against each other, he found out some disturbing details: the German army itself was responsible for destroying the strong German defensive position in front of Nemmersdorf (so the whole affair may even have been a trap, planned from the very start), and after the event no attempt had been made to identify the photographed victims by name. He was able to conclude that liberties were taken with at least some of the photographs, that some victims on the photographs were from other East Prussian villages, and that the notorious crucifixion barn doors were not even in Nemmersdorf. There also was the tight time schedule of witness Joachim Reisch, reducing the Soviet presence at Nemmersdorf to less than four hours of heavy fighting in front of the bridge.

Your own source does not say it didn't happen, only that it was embellished (exaggerated) and exploited (propaganda) by Goebbels. All sides used propaganda during the war, why is it so surprising the Germans did with this event?

[33Vortex]

I don't think the looting, mass rapes and murders of the Red Army in Germany can be debated, there is enough evidence. It's just that the subject has not been touched by historians because it's a "dirty" one, who cares about the death of some "nazi germans" right? "They got what they deserved." Is a very popular opinion, and while that may be true, it is not right to conveniently forget about what happened.

By '44 STAVKA had a serious issue with POWs not reaching interrogation centers, they were killed (murdered) in the handling between the front line and interrogation.

There is one documented incident where a russian unit killed a workers battalion (men and women) from Ukraine, in late -44.

There's a book on this otherwise widely avoided subject by Niklas Sennerteg, Stalins Hämnd (Stalin's Revenge). Don't know if there is a english translation available though.

[SD67]

So, what were we talking about again? 

[Angus]

The Grizzly Bear.
BTW, I personally know folks that were in Soviet captivity in WW2.
The account is...not nice.