Perk

[hlbly]

Yes, but the 16 does need a perk. As fast as it is, roll rate, acceleration. They should be learning the Spit 9 and Spit 5. The average idiot in a Spit 16 makes it look like junk, but in the right hands, it does need to be perked.

Your kidding right ? My 1st 3 or so weeks I flew nothing but a Mk.IX . <beacause it was Johnnie Johnsons ride> .  The main thing I learned was one mistake and you are dead .Had a profound fear of f4u-1c . Was becoming a little discouraged because I got like 4 or 5  , 1v1's with Rolex . 1 with Spatula . Some serious time from Mntman and Murder as well . Was still not making great improvement because 1 small mistake and I was dead .<alot of thinking way too much> . Then I ran into Vudak . We went to DA and sparred hours at a time .him in the dreaded F4U me in Mk.IX . Then he and Rolex on the same day suggested that I try the XVI and the VIII . Suddenly in furballs I could make a small error and recover from it . Live a bit longer make some more errors even capitalise on one the NME was making and get a kill . Shazaam suddenly I am getting some kills and loving the stuffing right out of it . Now I wont turn and run if I see a 1c . I know a bit more about what to do and not to do . As a matter of fact I learned it was the 1a that you need to look out a lil bit for . It is still a very tough learning curve .I know there are going to be spells when I will not lower my landing gear for sortie after sortie . I also know there are going to be those multi kill landed sorties . I have a long ways to go but eventually when the day comes and I am tooling around in a fork and i run into someone who is fresh meat I will not ridicule their plane instead I will tell them my honest opion of what plane is good for a learner and why i think that . One last point . I think you just dont remember what it is like to have to learn all of this at once . It wouldn't be the same but try going to the DA and fly the TBM and nothing but a TBM for a few days see how it feels . Even that way you have it better than the new guy . You know ACM you know the envelopes of the plane set . Just try the frustration of being destroyed with almost 0 chance of landing and way small chance of even killing . Get a small taste of what its like . Then tell me about how the Spit should be made unattainable for the fresh meat . See if you would continue if your planeset was nothing but single engine bombers .

[BnZ]

Honestly, I can see nothing about the SpitXVI that would improve the lot of the average noob vrs. the SpitIX all that much. Noobs basically know to pull the stick back, and can't shoot very well. Both planes turn well and have cannons. The 9 is if anything a steadier gun platform. Roll rate and all that engine power are things that mostly require a slightly more advanced hand to make good use of.

Your kidding right ? My 1st 3 or so weeks I flew nothing but a Mk.IX . <beacause it was Johnnie Johnsons ride> .  The main thing I learned was one mistake and you are dead .Had a profound fear of f4u-1c . Was becoming a little discouraged because I got like 4 or 5  , 1v1's with Rolex . 1 with Spatula . Some serious time from Mntman and Murder as well . Was still not making great improvement because 1 small mistake and I was dead .<alot of thinking way too much> . Then I ran into Vudak . We went to DA and sparred hours at a time .him in the dreaded F4U me in Mk.IX . Then he and Rolex on the same day suggested that I try the XVI and the VIII . Suddenly in furballs I could make a small error and recover from it . Live a bit longer make some more errors even capitalise on one the NME was making and get a kill . Shazaam suddenly I am getting some kills and loving the stuffing right out of it . Now I wont turn and run if I see a 1c . I know a bit more about what to do and not to do . As a matter of fact I learned it was the 1a that you need to look out a lil bit for . It is still a very tough learning curve .I know there are going to be spells when I will not lower my landing gear for sortie after sortie . I also know there are going to be those multi kill landed sorties . I have a long ways to go but eventually when the day comes and I am tooling around in a fork and i run into someone who is fresh meat I will not ridicule their plane instead I will tell them my honest opion of what plane is good for a learner and why i think that . One last point . I think you just dont remember what it is like to have to learn all of this at once . It wouldn't be the same but try going to the DA and fly the TBM and nothing but a TBM for a few days see how it feels . Even that way you have it better than the new guy . You know ACM you know the envelopes of the plane set . Just try the frustration of being destroyed with almost 0 chance of landing and way small chance of even killing . Get a small taste of what its like . Then tell me about how the Spit should be made unattainable for the fresh meat . See if you would continue if your planeset was nothing but single engine bombers .

[Karnak]

Honestly, I can see nothing about the SpitXVI that would improve the lot of the average noob vrs. the SpitIX all that much. Noobs basically know to pull the stick back, and can't shoot very well. Both planes turn well and have cannons. The 9 is if anything a steadier gun platform. Roll rate and all that engine power are things that mostly require a slightly more advanced hand to make good use of.

The Mk VIII and Mk XVI's better power allow a greater margin of error to be recovered from so the fight can continue.  New players learn remarkably little on the climb out and transit to another base.

And all of this is moot as not one of you has yet demonstrated a single reason at all as to why it should be perked.  Failing that basic requirement does not put you on a good road to success.  All the vague "it rolls too well, turns too well, accelerates too well, is too fast, climbs too well and hits too hard" garbage is completely subjective.  The non subjective numbers say that is has a middling K/D ratio and its percentage of kills is right in line with the P-51D, La-7 and N1K2-J.  If it were posting much higher numbers than they are, you'd have an argument, but it isn't, so you don't.


hlbly,

Johnie Johnson flew a Spitfire LF.Mk IX powered by a Merlin 66 (same engine as in our Mk VIII), not the older Merlin 61 powered F.Mk IX we have in AH.  The Merlin 61 is tuned for high altitude performance and it lags behind at lower altitudes typical of MA combat altitudes.  The Spitfire Mk XVI is powered by an American built Merlin 266 which is very similar to the Merlin 66 and last I saw our Spitfire Mk XVI's performance actually matched the power curves of a Merlin 66 instead of the Merlin 266 (266 has a critical altitude 1000ft higher).  So your Spitfire Mk XVI is closer to what Johnnie Johnson flew than our Spitfire Mk IX is.

[angelsandair]

I only fly the Spit 9 and Spit 5 when it comes to spitties.

[Karnak]

I only fly the Spit 9 and Spit 5 when it comes to spitties.

That is fine. Others fly what they like though and unless there is a good reason to restrict something it shouldn't be restricted.

[Widewing]

You are far underestimating the Spit 16. It turns tighter and is much faster than the F6F at all altitudes.
I have never experienced 'instability' in the Spitfire. Thing's solid as a rock.

It isn't "much" faster down low, and if HTC corrects the FM's speed curve with the F6F upgrade, it will be just as fast up high. You can do things with the F6F that you cannot do in a SpitXVI as the Spit is too unstable at low speeds and high AoA, which can get ugly if you are not very careful.

If you haven't experienced stability issues with the SpitXVI, you haven't been pushed very hard. I'd rather fly the SpitVIII as it trades a bit of speed for better stability at the limit. Indeed, I've never lost a duel to a SpitXVI while flying the SpitVIII.

I see no reason to perk any Spitfire, including the Mk.XIV.


My regards,

Widewing

[SectorNine50]

I'm really confused on what the definition of "unbalancing" is.

This is what I gather...
So we perk the 262 because it goes REALLY fast and has 30mm, very hard to fly though (take off and landing is more challenging than other planes), once you get slow, your essentially dead...
Same for the Tempest minus taking off and landing, but it has 20mm...
We perk the C-hog because it has 4 20mm instead of 6x50's, but no real performance benefit over the other F4U's.  So based on this, a Niki should be perked too...?
We perk the Spit XIV because it goes faster than your average spit (and has 50's instead of 303's), but doesn't turn as well...
We perk the F4U-4 Because it climbs very well, but it still has a 6x50 cal gun package...

My question is, what is it about these planes, really, that makes them unbalancing?

You couldn't see this?
We perk the Spit XVI because it decelerates/accelerates quickly, has 50cals and 20mm's, climbs very well, is fast, turns very well, carries more ord than other spits, and (just like any of the other perked and some unperked planes...) in the right hands is VERY lethal.  Even in the WRONG hands it can STILL be lethal!

Now I'm not really complaining about the Spit XVI, I just really don't understand why when someone gives a load of reasons why a plane is should be perked, people reply with "you haven't given me one reason as to why it's unbalancing."

So what the *bleep* makes a plane "unbalancing?!"  Perhaps if we had some REAL guidelines to this, we'd understand and stop seeing these flame war threads about perking rides.

Now I agree with the people that say that we need a ride for beginners wholeheartedly.  Perhaps the price of a plane should vary directly with your rank in that type of plane.  So one person pays lets say 30 perks for a ride because he's ranked below 200, while the high ranked pay 5 or even less perks (dependent on the aircraft).

This is just an idea.  If you have any comments, don't put them in flame form please.  Nothing gets accomplished when people are at each other's necks.

[Bosco123]

First of all, Spit16 can climb less than 2500 feet in 30 sec, so your claim "now up to your alt in less then 30 seconds" isnt true at all unless you dont have alt actually. Second, Corsair can bite Spit16 in turnfight or rope it (unlike you said above), and climbing 16 is free easy kill, nothing more.

Basically, you exaggerating every Spit16's ability in great scale and use it as base for "perk it" request.

Spit16 is best fighter for noobs because it encourage them to fight, not just pick & run like La7 or P-51D for example, and give them some chances agains more experienced pilots. It shouldnt be perked just because somebody cannt deal with it.

Not at all, a F4U1-D cain't even come close to out climbng any spit, other than maybe the spit1. It cain't out turn a F4U1-D, but it can certainly out fight it in a vertical. Maybe a U4 might be the only one that can outclimb the spixteen.

[BnZ]

I'm really confused on what the definition of "unbalancing" is.

I think everyone is. If the standard is some plane that ends up flying 1/4 of all sorties, I don't think its going to happen in today's LW MA, with all the plane choices available and many personal preferences. If we unperked everything, you might see a ton of 262s, Tempests, 4Hogs, etc...for a week. After that, I predict everything would largely go back to normal. Does that mean the whole perk system should be discarded?

The F4U-4 does not out-climb the SpitXVI, although it is better in every other regard. Still, a good hand in a SpitXVI can pull out a win against a good hand in an F4U-4 often enough that you can't take the Spit lightly in this match.

[Oleg]

Not at all, a F4U1-D cain't even come close to out climbng any spit, other than maybe the spit1.

Never said it can.

It cain't out turn a F4U1-D, but it can certainly out fight it in a vertical.

Climb have very little effect on fight result unless you want to extend and return with alt advantage.

[trigger2]

Not at all, a F4U1-D cain't even come close to out climbng any spit, other than maybe the spit1. It cain't out turn a F4U1-D, but it can certainly out fight it in a vertical. Maybe a U4 might be the only one that can outclimb the spixteen.

Well, to be honest, no it "cant" outclimb, but the thing is, that's if the two planes were side to side goin the same speed, and pulled up at the same time...

From my experiance, corsair sticks are able to conserve E better than their spitty counterparts, giving them oh maybe a 20-50mph advantage over the spit on the start of the climb, both planes hit WEP, and, in my experiance, both planes stall out relativly at the same time, and the fight goes to he who can get out of the stall first, regain control of the plane, and shoot...

The problem I have with the spit XVI is this, it has 20mm's AND 50 cals, it can turn (once those flaps come out, game over...), it can climb, it can run, it can roll, it can do almost anything... I don't see why the Spit XIV is perked when the XVI is all around better (except in speed...)

My $.02

[Kev367th]

This may be the divide between those who think it needs to be perked and doesn't. If it went ~355mph instead of ~344 on the deck, I'd definitely be in the perking camp. If we had a clipped-wing SpitIX instead of the XVI, I'd be in the definitely don't perk it camp. As it is, I'm on the fence.

You realise that the flight model (based on the full throttle height) actually makes the XVI a Mid 1944 LF IXe. So theres your clipped Mk IX.

Wonder if the tag was LFIXe instead of XVI if we would get half of these threads.

Take away the 50cals and replace them with .303s you have a 1943 LF IX !!!!!!!!!

Bring back the old CCC Mk Vc and clip it.

[BnZ]

Sir,
I was referring to the performance of our Mk IX, a plane whose turning is good and whose E building abilities are also merely good, not  good and extremely good, ala our XVI.

If the SpitXVI were a 1934 production model, it still would not change its attributes, which make it a very superior aircraft in all respects except top speed, where it must deal with simply being decent. Almost any plane the SpitXVI cannot out-turn, it will have an enviable horsepower advantage over. The only exceptions to this rule I can think of are the SpitVIII, the Ki-84, and the F4U-4.

I can't come right out and say perk the XVI because, purely because it is not so fast, but I will say it is certainly very near the top of the list of strongest non-perked rides.

You realise that the flight model (based on the full throttle height) actually makes the XVI a Mid 1944 LF IXe. So theres your clipped Mk IX.

Wonder if the tag was LFIXe instead of XVI if we would get half of these threads.

Take away the 50cals and replace them with .303s you have a 1943 LF IX !!!!!!!!!

Bring back the old CCC Mk Vc and clip it.

[50 Cents]

why do most people despise spits? is it because they really were one of the better WW2 aircraft out there ,or maybe one of the most effective aircraft.....then maybe we should perk the P51-D i have seen those guys cook through a base blow the crap out of it and fly away trailing about 30 planes behind that are Turing to catch him ,to no avail ..very fast aircraft...anyway that's just my 2 cents

50 Cents

[BnZ]

For what its worth, I think the ability of the Spits in AHII to pull Gs with so little E loss relative other planes must be a little over-blown.

In a sim, as opposed to real life, the ability to out-climb, out-accelerate, and out-turn most will always be more desired than the ability to out-run most.

why do most people despise spits? is it because they really were one of the better WW2 aircraft out there ,or maybe one of the most effective aircraft.....then maybe we should perk the P51-D i have seen those guys cook through a base blow the crap out of it and fly away trailing about 30 planes behind that are Turing to catch him ,to no avail ..very fast aircraft...anyway that's just my 2 cents

50 Cents