Low-speed F4U

[Saxman]

MtnMan,

That was the major cause of stall instability in the F4U: Inexperienced pilots would accelerate hard on the throttle when they felt the ship losing control. The sudden application of power would only exacerbate the problem. This same issue was not unique to the F4U, however she WAS the first carrier bird to have so much engine power that this became an issue, as opposed to the much less powerful Wright engine on the F4F.

Sector,

You also have to consider that the F4U gets a subtle increase in wing area due to the wing configuration. The inverted gull design actually gives the Hog a slightly greater wingspan than a comparable aircraft, not tremendous, but still significant.

[Widewing]

Read this gents... NACA Report No. 829

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930091906_1993091906.pdf

My regards,

Widewing

[SgtPappy]

With regards to the F4U's lift coefficient and great turning capabilities, I just realized that not even in ONE thread (that I was able to search up) has someone been able to mention the mysterious 'panels' under the wing... just forward of the leading edge of the flaps, under the wing.


Sorry, I can't find better images.

What happens is, as the flaps fold downward, these 'panels' actually collapse into the wing. The effect is that a lot of air goes through and is compressed to be pushed out the tiny space in between the wing and the flap itself. This speeds up the air generating much more lift than a conventional slotted flap.

And THAT's why the F4U generates so much more lift than a P-47.

[Krusty]

bzzzt, nope.

P-47 has the same slot/gap.

IMO it's too thin to really get air flowing from under to over. I'm not an expert like some but if you look at any wing with slotted flaps you find much more space for the air to flow.


remember, it has to flow freely. Heck, the 109E had more of an air pass-through than the F4u, just looking at reference photos.

[SgtPappy]

Hm. I thikn I just found some pics of P-47 flaps. Theydon't show enough of the wing to see, but from what I see, there are no such panels. Just saying, I can't see them yet. If you have some photos I'd gladly like to take a look   At any rate, WW's posted test seems to provide evidence of the F4U's flaps being more efficient anyway.



However, it's not really due to opinion if you think it's too small or whatever. If it works it works. If it doesn', it doesn't.
What makes the F4U flaps effective is the speed of the air over the flap. The air is exiting a space much smaller than the space through which it entered. Whether the slot is big or not is likely out of question. The P-47M's flap as shown above, has an exit space similar to the entrance space.

EDIT: added pics, fixed some points.

[Cajunn]

I'm not a pilot or an expert, but I have watched and read a little about WWII air combat and when it comes to American Iron you "rarely" hear anything about a pilot deploying flaps during air combat. The excepted dogfighting maneuver was to come in fast and hit and run, gain altitude and come back for another pass.....referring to dogfighting the Japanese planes where the F4U's & P-38's where mainly flown. Now in the European theater I don't think turn fighting was much of an issue because the German fighter's by design were not considered turn fighters and that is why they had such a hard time with Spits and hurricanes. Unfortunately, in the AH2 theater you have planes fighting against each other that in real life were never meant to be matched up.

[ink]

the reason the wings were designed the way the were, was to allow clearance for the prop,simple as that.
and by making the wings "gull"  thats were the low speed instabilaty cames from.

i could be wrong, 

ether way, the only F4 ive had issues with is AKDOGGs, he knows that plane very well.

they certainly dont fly like a zero.

[SectorNine50]

Cajun: I was actually watching something the other day where a P-47 deployed his flaps against a 109, I believe a Pony did it later in the episode as well.  I'm sure it really depends on the scenario more than anything.

[Krusty]

Hm. I thikn I just found some pics of P-47 flaps. Theydon't show enough of the wing to see, but from what I see, there are no such panels.

No, but you notice how the entire flap pushes down and away, and allows air to flow between it and the wing? This as compared to a solid-hinge flap that simply rotates from where it is without dropping.

Same end result.


Let's face it, the F4U is not modeled accurately in this game. Literally overnight it went from average, decent, if you know how to fly it, to "able to out turn anything in the game and stay with zeros in turns"

I'm sorry. Maybe the early version wasn't right, and needed fixing, but this is giong too far the opposite way. Reality lies between the two I think. More towards the previous generation of flap code than the current one, IMO.

[Widewing]

No, but you notice how the entire flap pushes down and away, and allows air to flow between it and the wing? This as compared to a solid-hinge flap that simply rotates from where it is without dropping.

Same end result.


Let's face it, the F4U is not modeled accurately in this game. Literally overnight it went from average, decent, if you know how to fly it, to "able to out turn anything in the game and stay with zeros in turns"

I'm sorry. Maybe the early version wasn't right, and needed fixing, but this is giong too far the opposite way. Reality lies between the two I think. More towards the previous generation of flap code than the current one, IMO.

The F4U was just about as capable before the rework of the drag model. Little changed with it since AH2 came online. The thing was, very few bothered to use flaps prior to the discovery of what you could actually do with the flaps. When the Spit16 first came out I demonstrated how the F4U could give it fits. That was when, three years ago?

I think the research shows that the F4U's flaps are not very far from reality. If you argue that the F4U is too stable near stall speed, you have a case there. A good one.

My regards,

Widewing

[SgtPappy]

Well, Krusty, the Corsair's flaps aren't solid hinged either. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a slotted flap.
If anything, Widewing's stability issue is more correct. DTango disproved any doubt I had about the Corsair's turning ability and now, we know, that the Corsair is too stable. I believe it would fly more accurately if it had the torque reactions of a Spitfire XIV or a 109F.. I believe you stated that in a prior thread.