Low-speed F4U

[SectorNine50]

I'll probably get some heat from the F4U pilots for asking this... but from what I've read of the seagull wing design on the F4U, at low speeds, this plane should be very, very unstable (in a turn in particular).  Now from what I've flown in and against, I don't really notice this in-game.  I was wondering if anyone else has felt or noticed that maybe the low-speed characteristics of the F4U are a little over modeled?

(Please note, this is not me complaining, I'm simply curious.)

-Sector95

[Saxman]

Search button is your friend. Been discussed quite frequently.

[SectorNine50]

Ah damn.  The one time I don't do a search...

Thanks I'll do a search.

[SgtPappy]

There is much propaganda surrounding that too.

Most of the low-speed handling issues were experienced in the F4U-1.. the version that lacked the stall strip on the right hand wing. Our F4U-1, however, has the stall strip modeled so we have the same handling as the other F4U's which may be an error.


Also, the proper landing procedure in real life was to land and stall right before you hit the deck so you wouldn't bounce. In AHII, the whole bouncy thing isn't really modeled very well.. i.e. planes don't respond to landing as realistically as possible. Not that it matters.. its a flight sim.
In AHII, its much easier to land so we can land at higher speeds. Once the hook catches, you're safe.

That wasn't always so in real life.

The cable would stretch, giving the pilot more of a reason to be as slow as possible. If you try the real life approach, flying at very near stall speeds so that the stall buzzer is loud, but you're not buffeting, no combat trim, eventually your nose will start to fall. Lots of F4U pilots made the mistake of pulling up and firewalling the throttle. Try this in AH and you will actually spin to the left. With combat trim on, your plane will trim itself with throttle input so you won't really feel it with CT.

[Saxman]

The F4U's low-speed stall behavior IS mellowed a bit, however this is also true of ALL planes in the set. However based on a number of conversations the historical behavior is also exaggerated to a degree. MANY high-performance fighter aircraft during the war had just as bad, if not NASTIER, departure behavior than the F4U.

[Greebo]

One thing that seems odd given their RL reputations is that in AH the F4U's low speed stability is better than the F6F's.

[ian5440]

One thing that seems odd given their RL reputations is that in AH the F4U's low speed stability is better than the F6F's.

really? it seems like if im on the dec i can normally kill a hog with my kitty 
unless its SHawks CHog

[Gixer]

This has been beaten to death, but imho F4U's post patch low speed handling is too gamey and over modeled. Given the size,wing area/design and  power/weight ratio of the aircraft. Being able to dump flaps and float about like a zeke is one thing. But then being able to lower and raise gear within secs to further increase flight performance at lower speeds while still maintaining the ability to float about like a zeke is gamey. And taking advantage of the flight model imho.

Add this to the C-Hog and it's become the best prop ride in the game post patch.


<S>...-Gixer

[Steve]

Add this to the C-Hog and it's become the best prop ride in the game post patch.

Ya, it's the new LA7.  The Crutch of the LW arenas

[TequilaChaser]

One thing that seems odd given their RL reputations is that in AH the F4U's low speed stability is better than the F6F's.

didn't Widewing test and psot this information in a thread awhile back, it seems so dejavu to me.......

some have psoted the F4U has become more uber than the spitfires etc...... only changes I have noticed is the Manual Trimming out speeds have increased roughly 15 to 20/25 mph and  with the most recent update ( again confimred by Widewing ) is you will get better response turning to the right if you back off the throttle a bit to negate the Torque of the engine / engine rotation....... beyond that It still flys nearly the same for me as it always has......

the dang Gunsite/bore site could be englarged a bit , be nice if it was a lil bigger more along the lines of the other aircraft....and that dang head armor is /looks way much larger in the game than it does in real life ......

change it or complain enough that they change it, and I will still figure out how to make it go vertical with less than 100 ias and  still figure out how to float it around at or below 39 ias .......that is part of the fun factor with Aces High.staying on top of what your plane platform is capable of doing......

and why on earth would someone want to waste their time dropping and raising the Gear is beyond me...really not necessary...

[mtnman]

This has been beaten to death, but imho F4U's post patch low speed handling is too gamey and over modeled. Given the size,wing area/design and  power/weight ratio of the aircraft. Being able to dump flaps and float about like a zeke is one thing. But then being able to lower and raise gear within secs to further increase flight performance at lower speeds while still maintaining the ability to float about like a zeke is gamey. And taking advantage of the flight model imho.

Add this to the C-Hog and it's become the best prop ride in the game post patch.


<S>...-Gixer

I for one have never understood the whole "F4U gear increasing its performance" thing.  When I drop it, it slows me down.  That's about all I notice.  My understanding is that that's what it's supposed to do...  What effect is it rumored to have?

I do admit though, that I never use it while fighting so I could be missing something.  In about 1 fight out of 500 I'll use it as a last-ditch effort to prevent an overshoot, but otherwise I don't even give it a second thought until it's time to land.

We have had many, many pages of writing about the F4U's low speed handling.  Has anything conclusive come from it?  Something that HTC could/would/should use to adjust the flight model?  Would it be limited to the F4U?  Or a basic change to the way lift/drag or whatever effects everyone?  Is the "problem" limited to the F4U series?  Do Yaks, Spits, 109's or whatever fly 100% correct in all respects?  Is it possible that they aren't correct either?  Or even as correct as the F4U for that matter?  Maybe they're not quite right either, but the witch hunt hasn't progressed to them yet?

I'm NOT defending the way the F4U or any other plane is modeled.  I can't, as I simply don't know.  Having seen many arguments from both "sides", I still stay neutral, as they both have good, valid points.  And truthfully I don't care all that much.  I'd only quit flying the F4U if it was removed from the game.  And if they did I'd probably leave the game, as none of the other planes spark all that much interest from me.  Any flight model change I'd simply adjust to.  I'd like all the models to be as accurate as possible, but I think they still need to be flyable for average "Joes" off the street.  We "know" there are certain concessions made to reality as it is- throttle management, combat trim, etc...  Are there others we aren't so sure about?

MtnMan

[Saxman]

TC,

I've been asking for the gunsight to be enlarged about once or twice a month in the Wishlist since before the Hogs were updated. The bubble-top Hogs ESPECIALLY it needs to be doubled in size (per calculations I've done using the full--not the version that just uses the rings, but the extended cross--Mk.8 gunsight). Using the Mk.8 site a 190D's wintips should be SLIGHTLY larger than the outer ring at 200yds. In the game this occurs at 400.

I never use my landing gear in a turn-fight, ESPECIALLY if there's other cons around. I only ever use them in combat under two conditions: dive-bombing and my initial dive into a fight if I'm attacking a con significantly lower than me to control my dive speed.

[angelsandair]

Turn off your stall limiter, then jerk it in a hard turn. You'll see what everyone's talking about.

[AKDogg]

I have no problem controlling a f4u, f4u-1 for that matter. 

The landing gear trick should only be used for slowing down quickly or like saxman said, dive bombing or droping down on a target to prevent overshoot.  Should never be deployed for any other reason but landing.  Doesn't help in turning at all, in fact it hurts its turning performance.

[angelsandair]

I have no problem controlling a f4u, f4u-1 for that matter. 

The landing gear trick should only be used for slowing down quickly or like saxman said, dive bombing or droping down on a target to prevent overshoot.  Should never be deployed for any other reason but landing.  Doesn't help in turning at all, in fact it hurts its turning performance.

Shh, dont tell them that

I got in a 1 vs. 1 in the DA with another F4U. We had been going at it for so long, I landed, cut my engine, he swooped right past me and from the ground, shot him down.