Author Topic: Gangbanging  (Read 487 times)

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
Gangbanging
« on: September 11, 2000, 09:43:00 AM »
Can it be outlawed? of course not

Does it effect people that just want to fur ball anyway? eventually but it hits people that want to play the whole game more.

Have people quit because of its prevelence in AH?Certainly.

Is it a stratagy or tactical issue?No its about human nature. In a game were advantage is 40 % of the fight, a gangbang generates a constant advantage to your side.

Would anyone quit if it was less common and the carrots and sticks used to curb it were not too draconion?Extremely unlikly

Are certain coutries less likly to whine about it? Nope.

Are certain people people more likey to whine about it?...blush...yup...

Can the server detect it?yes

Can something be done to disuade it and or help out the oppressed?Many things

Should it be HTs highest priority?o. Ships are far more important.

Looking at AH as a GAME. I think this is the biggest problem with it. It does not diminish AH as a SIM at all. It might even make it a more accurate sim.

Oh well...blah blah blah.. hope that something gets done some time.
Dont get your hopes up. Im not going to quit over it. I might get kicked off over it though.
   

[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 09-11-2000).]

Offline Apache

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1419
Gangbanging
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2000, 10:51:00 AM »
Prevalence in AH? Don't have a clue what that is supposed to mean. I was part of the purple hord in WB. We constantly ganged the others. Just part of the game Pongo.

Oh and yes, I'm a knight too.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
Gangbanging
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2000, 11:11:00 AM »
The purple horde controlled 2 of the 3 countries?

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Gangbanging
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2000, 11:11:00 AM »
Its just part of the game, surely? I love flying around on mass, helping people out(and getting killed). Or trying to escape a hoard and dragging to friendlies (and getting killed). The furballs are one of the best things about AH - it feels good when your side gets on top of a furball, when initially, you were outnumbered.

I honestly believe that AH is the best game I've ever played, and will improve as time goes on.

Well thats how I feel about it anyway  .
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Gangbanging
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2000, 11:17:00 AM »
Wouldnt it be nice if the arena resetted to a 3 sided war one turn, then to a 2 sided war the next reset...

on the 3 sided war people are on their "current" nations, on the 2 sided war people would just choose another chess piece (Kings and Peons? Heehee) and fly it.

That way each player would be registered in the server as being a Knight/Bishop/Rook for the 3 sided map or a King/Peon for the 2 sided war.

Comments?

Offline Apache

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1419
Gangbanging
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2000, 11:50:00 AM »
Control? I didn't see control in your initial post. I thought we were talking about gettin ganged. We are not controlled, as evidenced last night. Zigrat began his missions and we took 3 bases, stopping the ganging, while the bishop were still trying for 27, sheesh  .

BTW, wasn't 2 of 3..was 3 of 4, lol.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

WingMan

  • Guest
Gangbanging
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »
why not just make it 2 countries, then there would be no gangbanging....of course all the lamers who insist on gangbanging will probably just switch to the country that massivly outnumbered the other, so that wouldn't work.

Problem is there are just too many lame gangbangers, too many score potatos (people that would rather just sit and vulch a base rather than actually capture it and all the new A-holes who do nothing but drive a flak panzer to the end of an enimy runway and kill everything that takes off) its not the game design, its the players that are making this game suck.

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
Gangbanging
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2000, 01:51:00 PM »
Apache
The issue is not whether anything can be done about the gangbang by the oppreses, nor if is not an equal opertunity meany. The question is can something be done to discourage it a little without effecting the other areas of the game. I think so.
But you go ahead and look at my score page and tell me what more I can do.

Offline Soda

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1543
      • http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm
Gangbanging
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2000, 04:37:00 PM »
Ok, I may as well throw out an idea.  Maybe it's good, maybe not, but at least it's an idea.  It's a little long to explain but is really not that complex when you think about it at the end.  But read on if you dare....

The premise:
AH currently has the ability to track how many cons are in a sector.  We get it on the radar map and HTC servers deal with the ip packets all the time to work out the relative numbers (sector bar).  Now, there are 3 fronts (an imaginary intersection between friendly and enemy forces) in this game bish/rook, bish/knit, and knit/rook.  Consider the concentration of forces on any front to be the numbers of aircraft, friendly and enemy, in a sector adjacent to the front in question.  Now, if you did a quick couple of calculations you could easily determine where the action is at any one time on the map.  Sure, fronts move around but in order to be a front they have to have 2 countries bordered.

The idea:
So, the bangers each have a front that is relatively inactive, and the banged has both fronts active.  Easy enough.  The only situation that isn't a gangbang is when everyone is only attacking 1 other country or if each country is attacking both others (and this does happen at times).  So, in doing this, we can tell who is getting banged and who is banging.

Next comes the rating of a front.  There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to bang someone for a little while for many reasons.  You want to kill some of their planes, you want to grab a field, etc.  You name it, there are reasons to bang.  the problem is that banging often gets really bad, or lasts too long.  So here is the next part of the idea.  Rate the fronts on a scale of 1-100 (call it an action scale).  Now, knowing that we can detect a country that is being banged (2 overly active fronts vs the other 2 countries that have a common inactive front) we make fronts that are banged slowly get a worse and worse action scale rating.  Each country has a rating scale on each front and you only get negative points if you are banging someone (or maybe just a front that is too active).  The defender of the bang doesn't get negative, or maybe some positive points.  Fronts that are quiet for periods of time get positive points.  Thus, when any country logs on you would see the relative ratings of each front and could tell where the bang was happening (though it would probably be pretty obvious if it were ongoing).  Negative points are only accumulated if there is a large % of combat occurring against 1 country (again, it's been explained how this could be derrived).  If one country is attacking both others, then the combat % for them would be pretty evenly spread out and there wouldn't be a real penalty for them (again based on relative numbers of cons in adjacent sectors).

The penalty phase:
A country that has a low action scale on a front slowly has problems on that front as the attack starts to run out of steam.  It could start at smaller fuel loads being available, or less powerful gun option, lack of re-arm/re-fuel at bases on the edge of battle, or maybe no more spawning at the edge of the front.  It's something that would be staged though and come on rather slowly as the action scale got worse and worse over time.  If the battle slows, the action scale would start to recover naturally as the action shifted elsewhere and the local fields had time to recover/resupply... if you want to think of it that way.  A short term attack wouldn't mean much since it would never have time really build up those negative points.

What this all means:
A bang vulch/furball/failed capture couldn't go on forever without it being harder and harder for the attacker to support from his local fields.  It would become more and more attractive to move the battle to another front and thus break the bang.  It would also give players a way to rate how the action has been flowing to know where the battles have relatively been and where they are running out of steam.

It also brings around some interesting side effects that could be cool.  A long term failed attack by a lot of enemy forces would slowly cripple their ability to defend their own territory.  Hard to defend when you've spent all your planes and ammo in one sector close to the front.  Can you say, counter attack... just like real-life.  Bases not on the front, or further away, would be less/not affected by the penalities.

The summary:
It'll piss some people off and maybe it's something to do in a different arena.  I don't see it being a bad thing though, you could still do whatever you really want, you just will have to travel further, or do with less if you insist on continuously attacking the same place in a gangbang.  I think people would figure out the implications pretty quick and it would just become another game factor.  If you sat there and gang vulched for a while, it would slowly become a losing proposition.

Then again, this could all be a big doobie that someone will smoke and throw away...  Hopefully it gives HTC some ideas though.

Soda

carl

  • Guest
Gangbanging
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2000, 05:39:00 PM »
    .     see that dot to the left ? it's the littlest violin in the world playing 'My heart bleeds for you'.   SHADDDUUPP this is the realistic play world , not  a two sided chess game fooo.

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
Gangbanging
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2000, 11:42:00 PM »
really...
I would have said it was your brain. Or maybe your IQ expressed as a whole number.
What is realistic about individual pilots deciding on a minute by minute basis who they wage war on.  
Its a game. There may be a way to improve it.
Dont be affraid of the uknown carl.



[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 09-11-2000).]

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
Gangbanging
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2000, 12:47:00 AM »
GangBanging?  Are you serious?

What gangs should be outlawed?  The 30 people that fly to A27 for 2 hours straight?  How about the groupe that comes from A1 to bounce the gang at A27?

Any attempt to regulate the game with various systems introduce yet another thing to be manipulated by people that would rather game the game.

My solution to GangBanging?  Bring a bigger gang.

AKDejaVu

Offline SKurj

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
Gangbanging
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2000, 10:04:00 PM »
LOL Gangbanging is commonplace in any air combat sim i've ever flown.  Aw3, Redbaron2, FC even, WB's and of course AH.  There is no "fix".  U can't punish someone for it.  If i see an enemy close to my base I'll engage if i can, and i'm sure alot of my teammates will do the same.  The fool that gets into a fight alone near an enemy base deserves what he gets.  There is only one person responisble for a gangbang... and thats the person who gets ganged.
From my experience about the only thing that can be done about this is larger maps, with longer fronts.  You guys have the terrain editor now, see what you can come up with.

SKurj
btw employed!! be back soon loox like +)

Offline JimBear

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
Gangbanging
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2000, 08:18:00 AM »
Gangbangin? It comes it goes, the number of reds an greens will flow. Used to be when I started that the Nits were the perpetual underdogs.... everyone gets a turn in the barrel.  

If it becomes a constant lopsided deal, maybe a change in scoring, where the team odds become a factor. team X with 60, team Y with 20,  X player gets 1/3 the points when the structure or plane Y gets shot. Y player gets 3....maybe a score change triggered after a certain value is passed.
Way simplistic but you get the idea

Offline Vermillion

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4012
Gangbanging
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2000, 09:37:00 AM »
Jimbear is right, in the past two weeks, we most recently gangbangee was the Bish, the reset before that came against the rooks, and the one before that was against the knights.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure