Author Topic: DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech  (Read 1398 times)

Offline streakeagle

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2001, 06:04:00 PM »
DX7 wasn't even around when my company got "my" version  :)

TAPI on the otherhand has been fairly stable, but telephony has changed little since touch-tone phones were originally developed in terms of the signals used.

Overall, MSDN support has changed so much since I first started using MS VC++ 5. Not much of a standard when it is always changing  ;) But that is the nature of computer technology.
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OUR MISSION: PROTECT THE FORCE, GET THE PICTURES, ...AND KILL MIGS!

Offline Skuzzy

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2001, 06:24:00 PM »
Lephturn,..you know you are talking to a selective reading persong, don't you?

He posts marketing hype to back up his claims and when confronted with more subjective data, makes no comments.

I always try to pass on good informtion when I get a chance, as I do not care for misinformation as it has the potential of making people do the wrong things.
I know you do that as well Lephturn, but some people are more than happy to stay within thier bubble and then try to expand thier bubble to encompass those that will listen.
Just the nature of some people I guess.

Oh and streak, there can be differences in the quality of graphics between APIs, but it is not the API that is doing it.  It is the video card drivers that are doing that.  Some manufacturers have better drivers for one API than the other.  Nothing mysterious about it, it is just the way things are.

As much as I dislike MS, you cannot avoid using DX, if you want to appeal to as many people as possible.  Simple fact, there are more DX supported video cards than the other APIs.

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Skuzzy ]
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Offline streakeagle

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2001, 07:16:00 PM »
I am not marketing anything. This is for my own benefit, so I am interested purely in performance issues. As far as drivers go, companies selling graphics cards are motivated to get the highest benchmarks they can in both DirectX and OpenGL. But admittedly, the collapse of 3dfx left my Voodoo 5500 with unfinished drivers. But NVidia can't ever seem to get their drivers right no matter how much time they spend. They seem to have to make a new set every time a new game is released  ;) I lose some fps and compatibility with future games by staying with the Voodoo, but my picture quality still beats NVidia's best and as long as programmers like HT work hard to make sure their software is 100% workable with with my card, I have no reason to leave it.

I would really like to salute HTC for their efforts. Aces High ran flawlessly on my previous Diamond Viper II card which had major glitches in every other flight sim I owned and runs equally flawlessly with my Voodoo 5500 (new version aside  ;)). I don't know of any other company that does this so well.

Warbirds 3 lists the Voodoo 5500 as a supported card, but the clouds are jittery and other glitches are common. The last revision wouldn't even run right at all with my card. I think I spent a total of 5 minutes trying out their free WB3 arena. I would rather (and do) pay HTC than play WB3 for free. I don't even have WB 2.76 or WB3 installed on my computer anymore. Why fly anything less than the best?
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Offline Rocket

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2001, 07:25:00 PM »
Hell even WINE is using a version of a ported DX API (or similiar).  I just can't wait till they have the API done enough for me to fly AH there!  :)

HT any problem with us linux users running AH from linux once the dx api is done for WINE?  :)  :)

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highflyer

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2001, 07:56:00 PM »
So I guess no one wants to See the Demo then??


Skuzzy?... HiTech?...  no?


Just say the word And Ill up it.

Would like to see what ya think, one can do with 64k

Offline Lephturn

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2001, 08:11:00 AM »
Streak, Skuzzy didn't mean you for the selective reading bit.  He was talking about the idiot.

Yes, MS definately has some over-agressive business practices that the courts need to monitor and curtail.  However, that is NOT the reason why they are in a dominant position in the market in my view.  Sure, they try to leverage that huge market share in other areas... they would be stupid not to.  My point is that the market demands standardization to a huge degree, and Microsoft has been the only thing out there that seems to understand that.  That is why they are so dominant they can be called a monopoly, and for no other reason IMO.  Yeah your right, things like CD's and such have standards... but they are incredibly simple next to the type of standards MS deals with such as interface design.  Yet I see nobody out there that understands the need for standardization.  Look at Linux... where is the standard interface?  Yep, there isn't one.  Why haven't they gotten together and defined a decent standard, then built their own UI's that conform to it?  Sure, they would all look pretty much the same anyway, but I don't see even an effort to define some standards so folks can effectively compete with MS.  Part of the problem is a rediculous patent system that is not functional in the modern world.

I just chuckle when folks talk about "evil" Microsoft opressing their OS competition.  There isn't anything decent enough to oppress yet.  Hell, the one company that could have beaten MS was Apple because they had a better product, but they were too stupid to build it to run on open hardware.  (Wow, how scary would it be if Steve Jobs controlled 95% of the OS market!) Microsoft has not had one decent competitor in the OS space since OS/2, it's almost impossible for them NOT to have over 80% of the market.

Anyway, back to the main topic.  Direct X is now a very powerful API and MS gives developers great support.  As Skuzzy and I seem to agree, when it comes to support DX is really the only choice.  The only credible reason I see to go OpenGL is if you plan to port your game to *nix and/or Mac.  In that case OpenGL makes sense, but you'll have to get over the install and support issues.

Offline SKurj

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
Post that thing DeeZ, i'd be curious to see how its network coding is, and if it will get higher framerates than AH on every vid card used to play the game.


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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »
Hey lephturn, you want to talk about idiots here?.. lets see "Mr.. o0o0o dont try new video drivers because they are ineffective, buggy.. bleh.." o0o0o0 lol..

Its pretty simple to undo a few registry keys, and take away a few ini files.

you always make dumbed down ideas, as to what cannot be done, or look at things in such a way that if person A says it can be done.. then IT can.. IF person A says it Cant, It cant. lol  

Your Brown noseing ways on this board are obviously a way for you to show your lack of any real stance on an issue.

 
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As Skuzzy and I seem to agree, when it comes to support DX is really the only choice. The only credible reason I see to go OpenGL is if you plan to port your game to *nix and/or Mac. In that case OpenGL makes sense,

Thats right leph.. KEEP the undeclared monopoly rolling. Dont worry, Soon enuff, with the help of people like yourself, Microsoft will be choosing the way we run our computers. Eventually we will all be on the "Microsoft Standard"

Keep Kissing up to the creators, and you will surely keep a good name for yourself, and make sure you never disagree directly, weasle your way around as to be politically correct.

Skurj..Do you know what a 3D demo is?...

First off it has nothing to do with networking, so it is not going to have any indication of a networking feature.  

Im also pretty sure that Aces High Network code has NOTHING to do with its graphical ability/quality and efficency of render.

Sure thing though,.. Ill post the 64K demo that has the same(if not better in some areas graphics using Direct X 8 Api) than Aces.

 
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But the grapich eng has to display items from 20 miles out down to items the size of a cockpit needle.

This doesnt sound to efficent to me, it sounds as if unnessesary items are being rendered.

An example would be, Creating a model that has over 100,000 polys when the same level of detail can achived with 25,000

Idunno if its me, but all you that Claim so rightously the victorious accomplisments of HTC, and its supreme efficency (Lephturn), take some notes here..  

Its a 64K demo, You should really watch the ENTIRE thing and pay attention to what it shows/does. Oh and read what it says at the end.

All of you who Claim that HTC has been doing everything Top notch and supporting the lastest and greatest. Why are we still using 6.1/7.0 ??DX

8.0 is the standard now right?... Or am I just missing somthing...  it seems that others(companies, large and small) have managed to make, and use 8's features.  Even this 64k demo has successfully implemented 8's features... why not a larger company like HTC?

Not putting down HTC for thier efforts, its an awesome game, it has a large server with ability to host many in a global environment, and overall good ability to represent differing aircraft characteristics.
 
It still has 32 limit of Graphically represented Enemies like most other. and the graphics quality is aged.  Simply put.  

Another thing that is quite funny, is all the Talk of how you people think of creating something in DirectX is the best way for business, and to support a large base of potential customers.

The irony in that is that your still only using ONE way to communicate software to hardware. Most Companies, (those who want to reach the larger of the market) give Options.

Why limit to just Directx when OpenGl could be included as well?

 
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My 2nd use was OpenGL, ported warbirds completely to OpenGL then had to report to DirectX just because there were no completed OpenGL sets that work.

And.. I ask HOW long ago was this, that graphics developers (standard market) had these issues????

2nd Question would be, If you have worked with this before, (and im not doubting you) Then it shouldnt be hard at all to make use of this secondary knowledge right?

Also Ask... WHY Was it Going to be Ported to OpenGL originally instead of the more "accepted Microsoft product"????


Will up the File when I get home.

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2001, 12:11:00 PM »
Yah DeeZ i know what a 3d demo is.  Its a pretty apple and AH is an orange.


SKurj

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2001, 12:13:00 PM »
Just curious... have any of you seen a constructive or even helpful  :eek: post from DeeZcamp/highflyer?


SKurj

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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2001, 12:50:00 PM »
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Yah DeeZ i know what a 3d demo is. Its a pretty apple and AH is an orange

Graphics are graphics, the functionality of user intervention is the only difference.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2001, 03:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by highflyer:


Graphics are graphics, the functionality of user intervention is the only difference.

You're absolutely right.  That's why you can't compare a 3D demo to a game.  You just affirmed Skurj's point of apples and oranges.
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highflyer

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2001, 03:24:00 PM »
Quote
You're absolutely right. That's why you can't compare a 3D demo to a game. You just affirmed Skurj's point of apples and oranges


Wrong. you see the Graphic Capiblity of a program has NOTHING to do with the Ability to manipulate such a program with user intervention.

Nor Does Graphic capibility have anything to do with Network Code.


Only a few More hours until I post the File.

We will see what 64K of graphics/sound does compared to 22megs.

(and no this has NOTHING to do with user intervention)

Offline AKSWulfe

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2001, 03:30:00 PM »
Each post you make is reassuring us you don't know a lick of what you are blabbing about here Deez.
-SW

highflyer

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DirectX vs OpenGL vs Glide question for HiTech
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2001, 03:41:00 PM »
Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.....

Times Ah' Countin' Down....

Just to Clearify, The demo is in DirectX so if anyone happens to have any troubles, please repost with support for the infallible api.

Thanks -  :D