Eggs more potent then shells?

[Voss]

The big guns from the fleet take (I think) six hit to sink the CV, or cruiser (cruiser, battleship, destroyer, w.e.). Don't the shells off that thing weigh like 2,800lbs? If so, let's say 2k, so that's 12,000lb.s to kill CV. Why is it planes can do it with just 2k (plus rockets)?

Why not toughen up the fleet to require 12k of eggs (a single Lanc could still do it), 6 hits from SB, or 6 hits from ships (as that is now)?

If, the fleets could self-repair 2k of eggs worth of damage within 10 minutes, then the threat from solo suicide sorties would be done away with, and the game would balance out a bit better.

True, one kamikaze should be able to slow down deck operations, but taking the carrier out completely is a bit overboard, IMHO.

 

[Furious]

I agree that it is ridiculously easy to sink a CV.

Most hits made on the carriers in the MA, hits on the deck, would probably disrupt flight ops, but damage control would prevent them from sinking.

Treat the CV like an airfield to some degree.  Lets say something in the order of 3k prevents flight operations for a period of 15 min and cumulative hits totalling 10k or 12k in 15 minutes sinks her.

F.

[Zigrat]

i think they should

1) make fleet ack killable -- by strafing or rockets whatever, 30 minutes downtime

2) make flight ops suspendable by eggs

3) make sinking of capital ships only possible with torpedoes (DDs still sink with 2k eggs)

thatd be awesome

[zapkin]

why waste perfectly good eggs like this...how about some ham and eggs...or sausage and eggs...i just cannot see the reasoning behind dropping eggs on boats  

[vatiAH]

I'm not disagreeing with you on how easy it is to sink a CV.  I just want to  point out that the guns you are talking of are 8" guns mounted on a heavy cruiser.  HT modeled the Baltimore Class Heavy Cruiser, not a 16" armed Battleship.   The shell from an 8" gun wiegh approxmently  330lbs each.  The Armor piercing shells fired from the 16" guns found on the N. Carolina Class, South Dakota Class, and Iowa Class wiegh 2700 lbs each.    VOSS I agree the Carrier is too easy to sink with bombs, but don't expect the cruiser guns or the Shore battteries to kill it with just a few hits.  Also, the Essex Class carrier had an armor belt and also an armored deck ( the floor of the hanger)   that was thick enough to stop 8" shells.   That same deck was suppose to stop 500 LB bombs droped from 7000 feet.   When the Essex were designed the thinking was that a fast 8" armed cruiser was the biggest threat to the Fast carriers, not airplanes.    The ultimite fear to the carrier commander was being ambushed at night or in bad weather by a Fast , heavy gunned ships.

I'm not trying to change your mind, By all means, get the ships toughened up.  I just want to correct your figures so HT knows we did our home work.

Vati

[Wotan]

did a hvy bomber ever sink a cv or capital ship that wasn't in port??

Dive bombers however were effective with ordinance well under what is needed in ah.

see vatis post about 8" gunz.........

The problem is the accuracy of buffs and the "suicide" nature of the main.

I could understand upping its toughness (especial since no one wants to be bored flying cap) but its ability to spawn unlimited amounts of aircraft and lvts/pts and repair itself has to be balanced. With no limit to the number of flights off a cv I thinks its toughness is about right.

Besides most cv attacks end up with the cv within 20 miles of the field being attacked. Remember when we had no shore guns you could put cv right on shore and use its ack as cover.

Ideally each cv should be limited to say 80-100 ac then it should return to port or within a certain distance of a friendly field to have its aircraft replaced.

the flight deck should recieve damage (disable flight ops).

a better overall ship damage model. Some ares of a ship could take a lot of damage while others were an instant death (magazines boilers.etc)

who ever is tg commnder should have the ability to disable/enable flight and oughta recieve a death if he allows the cv to be sunk.

also all people manning the cv guns should recieve a death when manning the guns when a ship is sunk.

each manned gun ai gun should be killable.

A cv should only be able to make "minor" repairs at sea. At a certain point if damage is to great short of sinking it must rtp(return to port)

We need some kinda of supply/cargo ship to ressupply the cvs or make repairs. The cv only has x amount of operating hours before it needs resupply.

Or you could just increase the amount of ord to 12k which would eliminate suicide jabos but a lanc would still kill it just as easy.
 

[Nifty]

add an option to the TG menu for evasive turning of the group.  I doubt a CV would have just gone straight if there were level bombers over head.  It'd throw off the super accurate buff eggs at least (if the turns were random anyways.)

[Zigrat]

yes heavy bomnbers sunk capital ships

the Repulse and the Prince of Wales

[MiG Eater]

With regards to bombs and shells -

The US carrier decks consisted of a non-armored teak wood deck.  There are several cases of single bombs completely disabling a carrier (USS Franklin, for instance).  There are two cases of single rockets nearly destroyed the modern carriers (Enterprise, Ranger) where the weapon simply exploded among parked aircraft. These ships were, are, and should be vulnerable to these kinds of damage.  

Ship to ship shells are a different matter.  They are generally hitting the thickest armor on any part of the ship above water.  The steel is several inches thick.  If the shell hits the ship at an oblique angle (and rarely will the shell impact perfectly perpendicular), it will have even more steel to penetrate before doing damage.   (Think of a tank-fired shell hitting the sloping front armor on another tank.)  

I think the problem is that it is far to easy to get a single bomber within range of a carrier task force.

MiG

[Gtoraii]

MiG Eater
 Single rockets nearly destroying a modern CV???? LOL truly funny. Those CV where disabled sure, but not by ONE rocket. In the case of the Forestal and Enterprise it was 1 rocket, that do to power surge or short lauched and ignited a planes fuel(Sen. John Mcains?) . The resaulting FIRE set off more then 12, I think it was 14 or 17 1000pound bombs! That the Forestal did not sink outright is a tribute to the design.