The artful HO

[Ack-Ack]

So, if a  pilot goes to guns on the merge he's a HOer regardless of the angle he scores hits on.

Using a Lead Turn on the merge is hardly a HO shot or a 'cheap' tactic like some try to claim, it's a proper merge tactic.  Claiming that just by going guns hot on merge is a HO is just silly. What's next, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a HO?


ack-ack

[Zazen13]

Using a Lead Turn on the merge is hardly a HO shot or a 'cheap' tactic like some try to claim, it's a proper merge tactic.  Claiming that just by going guns hot on merge is a HO is just silly. What's next, any shot not taken from the dead six position is a HO?


ack-ack

It really is in a way, that's why duel merges are cold...99% of those who "hot" merge would also not balk at all at taking a HO'ish shot if it presented itself...They're usually the same animal.

[CAP1]

it's almost unbelievable that there is yet another ho thread running.


it is true, that the HO is  a very valid tactic.

i like to say that the HO takes next to zero skill, but then i'd be saying that that's my skill level, as on the rare occasion that i try it, i always miss. for most though, it is a very very easy shot. there is no relative movement between the HO'er, and his victem.

 it seems as if these threads get started by the guy that got HO'd, and is now pissed off about it, or the guy that just got a load of bs on 200 from the guy that he HO'd.

 in reality, i think why people critisize the HO in here is due to the firt thing i typed above.....no skill....shooting at an apparently stationary target. that ends the fight right there. i can understand this, as the fight is where all of the fun is. win or lose, no fight, no fun.

 it's like getting on a roller coaster, and you get pulled to the top of the first drop, then it stops, and they make you get off.

 after the merge(which i suck at) if i get your six, i have a blast trying to shoot ya down(gunnery sucks too). if you get my six, i have a blast tryin to shake ya off before i get killed.  


gonna go finish locking up now

<<S>>

[Zazen13]

There's a time and place to HO..But, it's not everytime and anyplace...

The sucky person who tries to HO is no problem, a two week noob can avoid those guys. Sharpshooters that put their cannon convergence out to 650 yards, turn tracers off to fool you into thinking they're "going cold" and ONLY try to HO are the ones that cause issues with it. Then they have the aim to spray off a control surface or your engine oil half the time when you try to avoid it or try to get separation for a traditional merge. I personally have no problem with HO'ing in a variety of situations, but 30 guys in a furball who ONLY want to HO even though they have several other very viable options is what chaps people's arses about it...

[Ack-Ack]

It really is in a way, that's why duel merges are cold...99% of those who "hot" merge would also not balk at all at taking a HO'ish shot if it presented itself...They're usually the same animal.

You're imposing your own sense of 'fair' play in an enviroment that offers anything but.  In the DA I agree, I never go guns hot on the opening merge but in the MA, a lead turn is a very valid merge tactic that is anything but a HO.  Even by definition, you can't classify a lead turn as a HO shot.  So no, it's not a HO in any stretch of the imagination, no matter how many paragraphs or pages you can write trying to explain that it is.


ack-ack

[Zazen13]

You're imposing your own sense of 'fair' play in an enviroment that offers anything but.  In the DA I agree, I never go guns hot on the opening merge but in the MA, a lead turn is a very valid merge tactic that is anything but a HO.  Even by definition, you can't classify a lead turn as a HO shot.  So no, it's not a HO in any stretch of the imagination, no matter how many paragraphs or pages you can write trying to explain that it is.


ack-ack

Well, my intention wasn't to impose anything in particular, but instead to merely point out that the ultra-stringent definition of a "pure" zero degree deflection HO really doesn't capture the true essence of what makes a HOer a HOer. The guy that pulls around for a face shot every chance he gets to the almost total exclusion of all else, whether it's the result of a lead turn or not, is still a HOer in the spirit of it. They are actually worse in a way than the guy who lines up nose to nose from 3k out guns a blazing from 1k in. I'm not in any way placing a value judgement upon the tactical validity or "fairness" of it, other than it's silly for someone to argue they didn't HO someone because it was technically a 5 degree forward quarter deflection shot, not a zero degree shot...That "hair-splitting" causes more purse fights on 200 than anything else.

Personally, there's a number of situations I will take a forward quarter shot, including a HO on someone, but there are also many situations I will sprain my wrist to try to avoid it. With my aim I am almost always in a position of advantage when it comes to forward quarter deflection shots...So, I will usually take a forward quarter shot in the following situations:

1) Against any 262
2) If I have someone hanging on their prop at the top of a rope as they are wobbling and I have gravity assist.
3) If I am low and slow against a superior turner as I am unlikely to gain a better angle.
4) If I am outnumbered more than 2 to 1.
5) If I am being bounced by more than 1 and have enough E to pull into his face without stall wobbling.
6) If I am at the top of someone else's rope and have enough E that I am not "falling off" and stall wobbling as they are coming back down.

I've HO'd the living crap out of people in all of the above situations, relatively few of those million+ times was at "pure" zero degrees deflection, but I still HO'd the crap out of them. It would have made no difference whatsoever if my shot happened to be at zero degrees or 8 degrees deflection, the intent and outcome was the exact same.

[Ack-Ack]

in other words, it's the plane, moreso than the pilot

I don't see how you got that from what I said.  I said get an unskilled pilot in a Spitfire against an average pilot, the average pilot will win.  Why?  Because he has the necessary skills to succeed in that particular fight, the unskilled pilot does not. 

ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

You're imposing your own sense of 'fair' play in an enviroment that offers anything but.  In the DA I agree, I never go guns hot on the opening merge but in the MA, a lead turn is a very valid merge tactic that is anything but a HO.  Even by definition, you can't classify a lead turn as a HO shot.  So no, it's not a HO in any stretch of the imagination, no matter how many paragraphs or pages you can write trying to explain that it is.

I used to HO regularly.  I was good at it.  I set my guns to 650 and always flew cannoned birds.  I won 85-90% of HO's, probably 80% without damage.

When I went in, even if the other guy dodged, I could adjust and kill him almost every time.   Technically then, according to you, it wasn't a HO.

I guess I should just get back to it then.  Thanks for the encouragement.

[Boxboy]

Speaking of the DA to me a cold merge is the FIRST merge after that its every man for himself.  I got chastized for taking a front aspect shot after we had danced for abit which hit home and immediately the guy cryed foul for an HO????

I guess the DA has developed new rules over the years.

[BaldEagl]

If no one has thumped their chest yet with the "I like HOers because they will be dead as soon as they pass me" line I'll add BS unless it's a totally clueless pilot!

By nature, if the HOer is "on you" then you are passing at almost 180 degrees with little seperation.  There is no way in h*ll you can come around onto their six while still in range for a shot.  All they need to do is seperate, reverse and try again.


All that said I've given up the HO shot.  I'd rather fight.  In the DA I go as far as to abstain from any front aspect shots on nose to nose re-merges although it doesn't bother me if the opponent uses them.  It's just that much more gratifying if I win.

[Steve]

If no one has thumped their chest yet with the "I like HOers because they will be dead as soon as they pass me" line I'll add BS unless it's a totally clueless pilot!

Typically, but not always, a perosn who HO's is usually less than stellar in ACM. Also, a person that goes for the HO is already behind in the first move off the merge.

[HedPE]

a perosn who HO's is usually less than stellar in ACM.

They ARE less than stellar.
A person that gos for the HO lacks all ACMs.
If they come at me HOing, that says one thing to me. "im bout to pwn them really fast"

[bmwgs]

Typically, but not always, a perosn who HO's is usually less than stellar in ACM. Also, a person that goes for the HO is already behind in the first move off the merge.

I have been Hoed by some of the biggest names in this game.  Of course they call it a deflection shot unless I win.  I usually fly a Spit 9 and when I come across their 51's, 47's and 38's it is usually HO city on the first merge.  I never say anything about it on 200, and I never PM, I just have learned to accept it.

Sometimes I take the effort to avoid, but depending on my mood, and seeing their intentions, I just go for it.  Every now and then I win one.   

Just my opinion,

Fred

[Zazen13]

They ARE less than stellar.
A person that gos for the HO lacks all ACMs.
If they come at me HOing, that says one thing to me. "im bout to pwn them really fast"

That's just pure bunk. I am not going to mention any names. But, I have been HO'ed with extreme zeal by some of the very best sticks in this game and have seen them do it to many others when they are on my team. A lot of HOers may lack in skill, but that is not to say everyone who HO's is skill-less. It's the guys who use the threat of the HO stick to make you break and lose position and E that are the dangerous ones. They are also the ones that likely also have the aim to spray off a control surface off-angle even if you try to jink out of the way. If only the clueless, skill-less, aim-less noobs HO'd we wouldn't be having this conversation. My dead 108 year old grandmother can avoid those guys no problem.

[BaldEagl]

They ARE less than stellar.
A person that gos for the HO lacks all ACMs.
If they come at me HOing, that says one thing to me. "im bout to pwn them really fast"

Care to put that to a test?