Author Topic: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful  (Read 1361 times)

Offline WarTooth

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Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« on: August 16, 2008, 03:11:38 PM »
Hey All,

Fighter plane stats are near meaningless because players can rearm until they get a really silly number of kills per sortie.  I recommend making a sortie end when a plane lands (what a concept).  This may also change the way many score obsessed players fly for the better.  Better piloting is a good thing.

Many (those that fly purely to artificially inflate this stat) will take a big issue with this post.  I understand.  I mean no disrespect.  You pay your monthly fee and can fly any way you want.

For the rest of us, this might make the score aspect of the game a little more real...or maybe not.

If the game is filled with kills\"sortie" obsessed players I will be in the minority on this.  I say lets find out by having AH do one for their famous polls.  Should a sortie end when a plane lands? yes or no.

Thanks for your comments,

WT
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 03:38:27 PM by WarTooth »

Offline Motherland

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2008, 03:14:45 PM »
Stats will never mean anything. :aok

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2008, 03:34:06 PM »
I don't really care either way, but the rearm option has to be retained for FSO I think.
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Offline WarTooth

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2008, 03:36:15 PM »
Yep, good point.

I am not suggesting to do away with the rearm option in any way.  Just change the definition of a "sortie" so as to make it harder to abuse.

WT

Offline FlyGhost

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2008, 04:26:12 PM »
um i dont think this is gonna get very far.
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Offline Monty405

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2008, 05:22:15 PM »
i just like rearm in the ma to get an impressive 'coinbird has landed xx victories" message. dont really care about stats otherwise

Offline uberslet

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2008, 08:32:20 AM »
there are many sticks who dont need to rearm, so if you take out rearm pad, it wouldnt kill those sticks who dont rearm because they dont need to.
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Offline WarTooth

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 08:39:19 AM »
Monty,

>> i just like rearm in the ma to get an impressive 'coinbird has landed xx victories" message. dont really care about stats otherwise

Here again we are basically in agreement as I am ONLY talking about having a sortie end, with respects to kills\sortie stat.

Stats are seen by many long term players as meaningless and those that win any category based on "stats" as a joke.  Someone who knows how to game-the-game and NOT exhibiting any piloting skills.  I guess I am proposing a change that more closely aligns stats with real pilot skills in the context of this game.

If this thread is kept alive AH must act upon it as it will reflect the features desired by the majority of their paying customers.

WT
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 08:50:28 AM by WarTooth »

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 08:56:45 AM »
Honestly, I think you could remove stats/rank/name-in-lights all together and nothing would change.  Not everyone is motivated by what others think, you know.  I've stated before that even without the ego-stroking you get from landing kills, you'd still see me trying to land because that's just the kind of dweeb I am.

Btw, normally "game-the-game" is reserved for actions more dubious than using the re-arm pad.  After all, that was explicitly put there to be used.  Gaming-the-game is stuff like stick-stirring, immelmaning with 2 drones, and bailing without damage.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 09:05:04 AM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2008, 09:23:56 AM »
I almost never rearm. Rearming is actually inherently dangerous and quite time consuming compared to just landing for a fresh plane. You are totally vulnerable during the process and it's a time-consuming pita to taxi in and out of the rearm pad. Any kill/sortie benefit gained is outweighed, score wise, by the proportional degradation of your kills/time and the increased likelihood some Lgay7 runway vulcher is going to come in and pop you on the rearm pad or while taxiing around. Kills/Sortie is the 2nd least competitive sub-stat of fighter rank only marginally more competitive than Kills/deaths. Kills/time, Hit% and points are the most competitive by far, in that order. So, sacrificing kills/time for kills/sortie is actually a losing proposition for a score potato even if he never gets whacked by runway vulchers and loses all his kills he could have otherwise landed.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 10:14:26 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline WarTooth

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2008, 10:45:06 AM »
Zazen,

Very good points.  :aok

In the context of those that have lives outside this game (most of us) Kills/time is erroneous.  After launching a plane, I myself may need to field a tech call from home and the like.  There are too many "life events" (pizza, baby crapping pants, dog getting out) for this stat to be accurate.

If we could do nothing but play this game and not be affected by any other events it might be accurate.

Zazen, would you agree that in this context that is true?

Thanks again for your comments,

WT

Offline Zazen13

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2008, 10:51:30 AM »
Honestly, I think you could remove stats/rank/name-in-lights all together and nothing would change.  Not everyone is motivated by what others think, you know.  I've stated before that even without the ego-stroking you get from landing kills, you'd still see me trying to land because that's just the kind of dweeb I am.



That's incredibly true.

There is a myth that there's only two camps, those who play for score and those that don't. But, as I wrote in another post on personality's effect on your game, there is an almost infinite number of reasons and motivations for flying in certain ways. Interestingly, a lot of the reasons and motivations are subconscious, even the person doing it doesn't know exactly why they are doing it.

For example, I am a perfectionist, my joy comes from "perfect" hops, where I make no mistakes, bring down as many enemy as possible and live. If I can't live, I at least want to learn something from the experience. A completely failed hop for me is one where I die, don't learn anything and fail to down the maximum possible number of enemy. You may have a totally different concept of a good and bad hop, in fact there's probably 5,000 different ideas of good/bad. Neither is more right or wrong than another.

There is no doubt some do in fact define good/bad hops in terms what effect it has on their score/rank. But, it's not as common as people believe and it's almost never the single motivation or reason for flying a certain way, especially for protracted periods of time. I flew for rank a few tours just to see if I could do it. It wasn't very fun and was not sufficiently rewarding in and of itself to merit performing the really boring chores required. It becomes like that for almost everyone over time. In the end people end up just flying in harmony with their personality, you can no more change that than you could change any other innate individual quality like intelligence or temperament.
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2008, 11:10:46 AM »
Zazen,

Very good points.  :aok

In the context of those that have lives outside this game (most of us) Kills/time is erroneous.  After launching a plane, I myself may need to field a tech call from home and the like.  There are too many "life events" (pizza, baby crapping pants, dog getting out) for this stat to be accurate.

If we could do nothing but play this game and not be affected by any other events it might be accurate.

Zazen, would you agree that in this context that is true?

Thanks again for your comments,

WT

Definitely, kills/time is very competitive precisely because there is a very wide, homogenously populated span within the sub-stat. It is also unique in that it is almost entirely inversely proportional with another sub-stat, kills/deaths, which is not a competitive sub-stat at all because almost everyone is within a relatively very narrow band. So, someone who kills quickly but rarely lives is far, far better off, score potato wise, than someone who kills slowly but rarely dies. Because, you cannot "pause" the game the meaningfulness of Kills/time is diluted by any real world distraction; wife ack, phone calls, pizza guy, work etc. It is the only sub-stat that is potentially directly affected by factors outside the game other than occasionally getting popped while afk...

Kills/time is more a factor of what plane you fly, therefore how much altitude you need to get and maintain to be maximally effective, which is itself a function of climbrate. So, if you are in a poor climber that fights poorly "nose-up" your Kills/time will be much lower than an equally effective killer in a "nose-up" fighter with a super climbrate. Also, your participation in types of fights that don't require much altitude improves kills/time without requiring you to be more effective, such as CV offense/defense, base defense and vulching. Then there's the incredibly fabulous sticks that are great killers but have craptacular Kills/time because they feel it is their duty to hunt and kill high altitude buffs to try to save their field's FH's. If all they did was base/cv defense and vulch they'd have an awesome kills/time stat.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 11:44:07 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Offline WarTooth

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2008, 11:19:27 AM »
Zazen,

I am not a PHD.  Could you say that again in English?

Just kidding.  Are you a scientist?

WT
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 11:55:10 AM by WarTooth »

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Suggestion to Make Stats More Meaningful
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2008, 04:23:38 PM »
Isnt it kinda bad to rearm since there is a time flying thing in the fighter stat right?
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