What should be done about Russias occupation of Georgia?

[Elfie]

PanosGR here's a link that Boroda posted to prove Tskhinvali was destroyed.  The photos are apparently taken by a war photographer with the *peacekeepers*. According to Boroda that is.

http://voinodel.livejournal.com/20990.html

Hardly a destroyed city by any means.

[PanosGR]

copy, i look to it thnx

[FrodeMk3]

There's that one tiny little thing that hasn't been truly figured out yet.

There was a shootout between SO separatists and the Georgians on Aug 1 & 2. This fighting continued off and on everyday up through August 6. There was arty involved on Aug 7 as fighting continued and Georgian mech units moving to the SO border. On the 8th, Georgia went into SO to put down what it saw as a rebellion by separatists. Almost immediately Russian forces countered with, from news reports, nearly division strength.

So who actually started this? It's clear the SO separtists and Georgians were shooting at each other from Aug 1 right up until Aug 8. 

Who started it?

There's been something going around in my head about this that makes more sense every time I puzzle it together. One thing was the apparent pre-positioning of the Russian forces; another was the large stocks of arms and material that they captured at bases like Senaki, inside Georgia. Now, if this was an intentional invasion on Georgia's part, then how come they weren't more mobilized? Why did they still have a large amount of their armor off of the fronlines, some of it still in depot's? There shouldn't have been anything to capture, if they were mobilized for an invasion the way that the Russians' were.

Even if the Georgian's crossed the frontier first, I'm thinking that it was a small force after the Ossetian' guns. To me that is becoming more and more plausible. I wonder if anyone from that force is still alive...?

[Elfie]

There's been something going around in my head about this that makes more sense every time I puzzle it together. One thing was the apparent pre-positioning of the Russian forces; another was the large stocks of arms and material that they captured at bases like Senaki, inside Georgia. Now, if this was an intentional invasion on Georgia's part, then how come they weren't more mobilized? Why did they still have a large amount of their armor off of the fronlines, some of it still in depot's? There shouldn't have been anything to capture, if they were mobilized for an invasion the way that the Russians' were.

Even if the Georgian's crossed the frontier first, I'm thinking that it was a small force after the Ossetian' guns. To me that is becoming more and more plausible. I wonder if anyone from that force is still alive...?

To me it is looking more and more like Russia intended this outcome from the start. Units positioned and ready to move, passports handed out,  all they needed was the excuse.

[FrodeMk3]

The whole gist of my point is, that the Georgians' probably didn't go on any kind of a serious offensive. I don't see how they could have. They would have had a lot more troops' up in the North, and there would have been a lot more actual fighting. From having watched the whole thing, it looked to me like most of Georgia's military was actually in the south, where the U.S. was training them.

You know, that's probably one of the areas' in the world that would be hard for the U.S. to shift forces' to quickly in case of a conflict like this. I mean, there's a lot of neutral airspace restrictions, the Black Sea is something that main units' of the U.S. Navy have never operated in, The Russians' have it covered with their own Navy and airforce, etc. And, with most of our available military deployed between Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't really have anything left over for this sort of conflict.

[AKIron]

The whole gist of my point is, that the Georgians' probably didn't go on any kind of a serious offensive. I don't see how they could have. They would have had a lot more troops' up in the North, and there would have been a lot more actual fighting. From having watched the whole thing, it looked to me like most of Georgia's military was actually in the south, where the U.S. was training them.

You know, that's probably one of the areas' in the world that would be hard for the U.S. to shift forces' to quickly in case of a conflict like this. I mean, there's a lot of neutral airspace restrictions, the Black Sea is something that main units' of the U.S. Navy have never operated in, The Russians' have it covered with their own Navy and airforce, etc. And, with most of our available military deployed between Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't really have anything left over for this sort of conflict.

Most of our available military is not deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our navy can deploy to the area in significant force in little time. We still have substantial ground and air forces in Europe. Our troops are well trained and battle hardened. Iraq is ready to stand on it's own and letting the Taliban temporarily retake Afghanistan might just make it that much easier to hit them a lot harder later.

[Maniac]

Russia rejects the Peace resolution brought forward by France in the UN.

It was expected tough.

France later tabled a US-backed draft resolution at the UN Security Council, demanding full compliance with the ceasefire and calling on Moscow to withdraw its forces to the positions held before the conflict.

Russia's UN ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, rejected the text. He objected to language on Georgia's territorial integrity, saying South Ossetia and Abkhazia did not want to be part of Georgia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571104.stm

[BTW]

Yes - but I think its a fact that the president of a country ordered his military to attack a city and many civilians were killed. Thats very much like Saddam and his war against the iraqi kurds.

I would not accept a mad man like Saddam/Sakashvili to be my president if he ordered to attack and kill my people - regardless if his troops killed 40, 400 or 4000 civilians.
And who knows how many ossetians would have been massacred if the russians have not reacted so quickly - kicking out the georgians from the ossetian territory?

Did you completely miss the fact that we invited Russia to help control Saddam? They do brainwash you don't they?

You may also want to note, our soldiers don't mask their face to hide their identity. It seems Russian soldiers taken to stealing vehicles , do.

[BTW]

We need to have some type of token military confrontation with Russia. Nothing else is going to make them leave. Their weakness is their shadow government is made up of criminals and cowards that aren't very bright.

[FrodeMk3]

We need to have some type of token military confrontation with Russia. Nothing else is going to make them leave. Their weakness is their shadow government is made up of criminals and cowards that aren't very bright.

I don't think that I'd say that they aren't very bright-They have so far outmanuevered this administration.

[Toad]

Russia rejects the Peace resolution brought forward by France in the UN.

It was expected tough.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571104.stm

I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you! I suppose this means the Russians will not vote to have sanctions imposed against themselves?

What is the world coming to?

[RedTop]

I don't think that I'd say that they aren't very bright-They have so far outmanuevered this administration.

They've out manuvered the world.

[Toad]

I don't think that I'd say that they aren't very bright-They have so far outmanuevered this administration.

How do you figure that?

They outmaneuvered this administration by giving away Russian passports to anyone with a heartbeat, pre-positioned a mech division in SO, had SO separatists shoot at Georgians until the Georgians came to put a stop to it and then launched a division on an invasion?

Where exactly in that chain of events was this admin outmanuevered?

[Baitman]

Iraq is ready to stand on it's own and letting the Taliban temporarily retake Afghanistan might just make it that much easier to hit them a lot harder later.

What? Can't believe this. Many men and woman died to get where we are and the suggestion of leaving and letting the Taliban have a victory however small is

[Elfie]

He objected to language on Georgia's territorial integrity, saying South Ossetia and Abkhazia did not want to be part of Georgia.

Funny how they object now but when the Soviet Union broke up Russia set the boundaries for Georgia and left South Ossetia and Abkhazia as part of Georgia.