I'm Voting Republican...

[pxdig]

Marxist (marxism):

1)a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation of workers by the owners of the means of production
2)a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production
3)an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations
4)an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable
5)a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change
6)a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state)

Communism is mostly the same except the willingness to use the military to fulfill ideals (in Obamas case ideals being replace upper class with working class or more precisely non-working entitled class).

That pretty much sums up my understanding of Obama.

[Sandman]

Cant agree. Abortion rights are (in my mind) special permission for woman to murder children without repraisal. I dont believe biological traits should afford anyone special rights. Female, gay, whatever...

That's fine. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Pro-choice works great in this regard.

[Dago]

That's fine. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Pro-choice works great in this regard.

Pro-choice?  Does that mean the baby about to die has a choice now?

[Hangtime]

Pro-choice?  Does that mean the baby about to die has a choice now?

Does that mean you prefer to make that choice personally, or are you deferring the choice to someone else... like a church group, government or corporate interests?

I hate abortion. Disgusts me. I also hate the concept of legislating common sense. I particularly detest the 'do-gooder' twits that have decided to surrender my right to decide what's best for me at the most basic level possible... my actual person belongs to nobody other than me.

You wanna outlaw abortion, then you better get together and decide when a fetus is an entity protected by the other laws on the books already. Then, it's not abortion. It's murder.

Meanwhile, abandon all thought of telling me, my wife, my kid or anybody else that your gonna let the government get free title and ownership of any part of us... because that sir; is a threat of slavery.... and that leads to a future I do not wish to contemplate.

[Elfie]

You wanna outlaw abortion, then you better get together and decide when a fetus is an entity protected by the other laws on the books already.

Some states if you murder a pregnant woman (Kalifornia is one) you get charged with a double murder......but those same women can choose to abort without it being called murder.

[Getback]

I'm voting Democrat because, well, I'm an elitist and I know how to spend your money better than you and what's good for you.  

[Hangtime]

Some states if you murder a pregnant woman (Kalifornia is one) you get charged with a double murder......but those same women can choose to abort without it being called murder.

Yup.

Fix that. You wanna protect unborn children, then this society needs to decide just when that fetus becomes a 'person', and then that person gets the 'protection' of the law... such as it is. No other legislation is required.

[Dago]

Meanwhile, abandon all thought of telling me, my wife, my kid or anybody else that your gonna let the government get free title and ownership of any part of us... because that sir; is a threat of slavery.... and that leads to a future I do not wish to contemplate.

I gather you miss my point, it isn't the gov't telling you how to control your body, it's about someone deciding whether a baby lives or dies.  That isn't the womans body being torn apart now is it?

[Hangtime]

I gather you miss my point, it isn't the gov't telling you how to control your body, it's about someone deciding whether a baby lives or dies.  That isn't the womans body being torn apart now is it?

It absolutely is... and you keep fixating on 'baby'. Address the issue of when that growth, attached to the mother and unsupportable outside her, becomes a person protected by the existing laws of the land.

You want to stop baby murders.. that's how you do it. Define WHEN it's a person, get that legislated.

[Anodizer]

He's got my vote......

[lazs2]

hang.. that is the point..  in some states if a pregnant woman loses a baby because of a crime committed against her the criminal is charged with murder.    It seems that we do have an inherent belief that a fetus is a life.. a human life.

I have always taken the cowards way out of this and said that when a fetus is "viable" without the mother then it is a citizen and it is murder (unless it is killed to save the mother..  almost never)   to kill the child.

It has become more and more likely that shorter and shorter term babies will survive.   It is making it hard to hide from the morality for me.

lazs

[Carrel]

I also like how they try to blame Clinton's free trade deal with the Chinese on the Republicans 

You aren't very good at recent history, are you?

[AKIron]

Yup.

Fix that. You wanna protect unborn children, then this society needs to decide just when that fetus becomes a 'person', and then that person gets the 'protection' of the law... such as it is. No other legislation is required.

Some have tried to do just that including legislation to protect a defenseless human being who lives outside the womb in spite of an attempt to murder him. Obama was against providing that protection and even later lied about it.

[AKIron]

You might be a democrat if it doesn't bother you that we have murdered 40 million of our babies but become indignant when we execute child rapists/murderers.

[Hangtime]

hang.. that is the point..  in some states if a pregnant woman loses a baby because of a crime committed against her the criminal is charged with murder.    It seems that we do have an inherent belief that a fetus is a life.. a human life.

I have always taken the cowards way out of this and said that when a fetus is "viable" without the mother then it is a citizen and it is murder (unless it is killed to save the mother..  almost never)   to kill the child.

It has become more and more likely that shorter and shorter term babies will survive.   It is making it hard to hide from the morality for me.

lazs

It's probably the concept of PC conditioning that's lead us here.. the issue has been packaged with such powerful and emotive words... most of the sheeple have no desire to really face the issue, so they take the easy way out and hop on the 'save the unborn babies' bandwagon.

Meanwhile, you and I and everyone else are really discussing the oncoming loss of ownership of our own corporal entities.

It's an exceptionally simple proposition, really.  The coming choice of the age and the final bastion of the fight for freedom is being waged around your body and it's parts... will YOU be allowed to decide when you can end your life? Will YOU be allowed the dignity to pass on on your terms? Will YOU be allowed to decide who, if anyone has rights to your component parts? Will YOU be allowed to decide what goes in or comes out of your body?

Will YOU be allowed to choose?

Gawdammit.. it's my body. Mine. I reserve all rights to it. Any attack on those rights, no matter what moral skirt you hang on it, is an attack against personal freedom. On the most basic level possible.

There's a LOT of money riding on this... think of the 'players'... think of who will be the winners... who will lose. It really is not about 'unborn babies'. It's about who owns you and everything relevant to the palpitating mass of flesh that IS you. Think it through... and shudder.

It's not about 'save the babies' It's about saving your rights to your body and all it contains.