McCain flip-flopping

[storch]

When exactly did it become admirable for a person to doggedly stick to a position that was proven wrong? I'd rather have a President with the balls to change his mind than an idiot who doesn't have one to change.

I agree

[CAP1]

problem here is that he does it, osama does it, and each and every politician does it. it's called pandering to the voters.

 they'll say whatever they think you want to hear if they think it's going to get your vote. if it doesn't work, they flip to the other side of the issue. if that still doesn't work, then ya get a non-commital mush bucket who'll give you a 5 minute answer to your question. and when he's (osama)done, he hasn't told ya a dam thing. except that he doesn't have a real answer.

 they've all done it in the past, they're all doing it right now, and they'll all continue to do it in the future, or at least till we find a way to change the system

[midnight Target]

No, the real problem is that some people think there is always a simple answer to every question. There isn't. Sometimes the answer is convoluted and sometimes there are nuances that just don't translate well to a 10 second sound bite. Unfortunately when a politician actually tries to answer a question based on these real life circumstances and tries to speak to the American people as if they were adults, he is chastized by the opposition and bits and pieces of his speech are culled to show how "wishy washy" he is or maybe even god forbid... elitist!!!!

[lazs2]

Mccain is plenty flawed but so far as energy..  I don't think you can call it a flip flop when the situation has changed so radically since the original ban on offshore drilling...  in the original context.. there were a lot of oil spills and gas was a buck a gallon or so.   

Now..new methods have made drilling safe from spills and gas is 4 bucks a gallon.    this.. in a span of 20 years...  I would say that his changing his mind based on these facts and.. the fact that he was sorta right for the first 10 or so years pretty much makes this one a non flip flop.

Now.. take osamabamas posititon on this.. he really has flip flopped..  he changed his position based on poll numbers.   and even then.. he hedged his bets.. he says he thinks "some" drilling would be ok but doesn't really say what (don't want to anger the algor acolytes).

lazs

[Hornet33]

I could care less what either one them actually says, I look at their voting records on key issues that are important to ME (a registered voter, tax payer, and citizen of this country) to see what they are about.

Key issues that are important to me:

1. Gun Control  McCain has consitently voted on the side of gun owners. The ony times he's voted for restrictions of any sort were for mandatory background checks, and waiting periods. I believe those are resonable restrictions as a gun owner so I support his position. Obama has voted for EVERY single piece of gun control legislation that he's seen. His record tells me that he doesn't trust, nor want, ANY citizen to have the ability to defend themselves with anything more than a butter knife. Doesn't matter what he "says" his actions and voting record speaks for him.

2. Abortion  Anyoe that knows me on this board knows how I feel about this subject. I agree with and respect McCains opinion on this matter. Obama doesn't even have an opinion that he's willing to state, other than it's over his pay grade. Wrong answer for me.

3. International Relations  McCain has been all over the world, he knows most of the world leaders personally, he's been a player on the international stage for a long time and understands how things work in that arena, Obama is a freaking newb in that arena. With Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the map every other week, Russia starting all it's crap recently, North Korea doing God knows what, and all the other hot spots, and potential hot spots flaring up, the last thing I want is a newb trying to "lead" this country while dealing with the rest of the world.

4. Character  McCain seems to be a fairly honest guy. He's been open and honest about his character flaws, discussing his divorce with his first mariage, the depression he suffered from after coming home from Vietnam, he has openly admitted to making personal as well as proffesional mistakes and takes resposiblity for those mistakes. Obama went to a church for 20 years that has a pastor that is a racists, preaches anti US retoric (we've ALL seen it) and Obama has the audacity to come out on national TV and say he never knew about Rev Whites positions on certain issues. Does anyone really believe that? I sure don't. When asked what the hardest moral discision he's ever had to make, he says it was votaing agianst the Iraq war? Please. They guys over 40 years old. If THAT was the toughest moral choice he's ever had to make then he's lived one hell of a sheltered life. I'm only 36 and I've had to make plenty or tough moral choices, voting against the Iraq war wouldn't even be in the top 50. He says what he thinks people want to hear, and the Iraq war is a hot issue so he uses it every chance he gets even when it doesn't pertain to what he's being asked.

No one could EVER convince me Obama would be a good president. I look at him and I see Bill Clinton with a dark tan, and a hair cut. Clinton is a lying crook, and I have no doubt that Obama is as well. McCain on the other hand I think would make a good president even though he's not my first choice. I'll actually be voting for Barr in November seeing as I'm a member of the Libertarian Party. Obama keeps talking about "change you can believe in" yet NO ONE seems to know what that change is, not even him, because his puppet masters haven't told him. McCain will be more of the same with a twist, and I could live with that. At least I KNOW what I'm getting with McCain. Barr and the Libertarian Party actually believe in the changes they want to make, they know what those changes are, and they are very clear about what those changes would be. Fire around 500,000 government employees, reduce the size and scope of the federal government and let people be responsible for themselves like it SHOULD be.

[midnight Target]

Obama went to a church for 20 years that has a pastor that is a racists, preaches anti US retoric (we've ALL seen it) and Obama has the audacity to come out on national TV and say he never knew about Rev Whites positions on certain issues. .

See, more BS rhetoric. Please point out when and where Obama said he "never knew" about Whites "positions".

[sluggish]

When exactly did it become admirable for a person to doggedly stick to a position that was proven wrong? I'd rather have a President with the balls to change his mind than an idiot who doesn't have one to change.

Are you talking about a subject like the surge in Iraq?

[Anaxogoras]

Time for an honesty check.  It's the fault of the voters that politicians resort to flip-flopping.  The one who gets elected tends to be the one who can flip-flop the most surreptitiously.  Most people won't vote for someone who doesn't agree with some pet issue they have, no matter the candidate's character or other qualifications, and hence to build a winning coalition the candidate has to have the support of many people with contradictory pet issues.

[midnight Target]

Are you talking about a subject like the surge in Iraq?

Exactly....

And that is a good example of the issues I was talking about in my next post. I will let you read it instead of quoting myself.

[acfireguy26]

See, more BS rhetoric. Please point out when and where Obama said he "never knew" about Whites "positions".

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/obama-in-his-own-words/

Ask and yee shall receive.
PS: its Wright not White.

[Hornet33]

See, more BS rhetoric. Please point out when and where Obama said he "never knew" about Whites "positions".

I watched his speach on TV after that whole flap came up and heard him say that. "never knew" "wasn't aware" blah blah blah. FOX News, CNN, ABC, NBC, hell even the local 13 News showed his speach where he was saying he wasn't aware, and never heard Rev White say anything like that, yet we ALL saw Rev White on the same news channels spouting his crap.

It's not BS rhetoric. I heard it all with my own two ears and they both work just fine. I saw and heard what Rev. White said, and I don't believe for a minute that Obama didn't know after being associated with the man for over 20 years how he felt and preached about this crap. It's a bold faced lie and I'd tell Obama that to his face if given the chance. Or is it OK to talk like that because it's a "Black Church" thing? I heard several other black church leaders playing it off as just a blach church thing and it's alright. A local pastor here said that on the local news when asked for his reaction. Try that crap in a white Baptist church and they would have the NAACP, and the ACLU shutting the place down and the white pastor before a grand jury for hate speaches and inciting violence.

I think Obaa is a liar, his character I question very hard. I don't base that on any sound bites either, but from all the reading I've done from numerous sources, and the FULL speaches I've heard the man give. I've watched most of the debates and the man is an NOT presidential material by a long shot. Not by my standards as a voter and citizen.

I study the issues important to ME and Obama doesn't even come close to dealing with them how I think they should be dealt with. I don't vote for the "collective good" of the country. I vote for who's represents MY best interests. I, ME, MY, MINE is what's important. I could care less about you, them, theirs. My vote, My issues, My priorities, My beliefs. My vote goes to the person who best represents ME.

[Shifty]

Yeah, I know, but give me credit, it was worth a try and i took it 

I give you credit for being a British squeeker, and that's about all the credit I have for you. 

[midnight Target]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/obama-in-his-own-words/

Ask and yee shall receive.
PS: its Wright not White.

Sorry, not what I asked for at all.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments.

That is quite a bit different than the spin people "heard" on Faux news.

[Shifty]

When exactly did it become admirable for a person to doggedly stick to a position that was proven wrong? I'd rather have a President with the balls to change his mind than an idiot who doesn't have one to change.

Hmm for once I'm in agreement with MT. One of us needs to check the flavor of our kool-aid. 

[Hornet33]

Sorry, not what I asked for at all.


That is quite a bit different than the spin people "heard" on Faux news.

Actually it's exactly what you asked for, you just don't want to admit it. Obama's written words and spoken speaches of him saying he never heard Rev Wright saying things like that in over 20 years of being a member of that church.