seafire vs. bf110

[nonaste]

I just experienced a rather unbelievable outcome after flying a seafire IIc vs. a BF110.

This guy was about 1000' above me and dived on me.  I immediately went into a very sharp left turning orbit, taking advantage of p factor and resulting tendancy towards yaw to port.  This guy started to slowly fall in behind me.  I increased the turn until I was "riding the tunnel" as you like to call it.  The other pilot STILL managed to stay on my tail and shoot me down after following me in over a 360 degree turn. 

How is this possible?  The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33.  The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened.  This makes me wonder about flight modeling.

Can somebody explain this please.

[MjTalon]

was it a 110C? If it was then your mistaken. The 110C can pull harder in a flat turn than a seafire as long as the 110 has E to play with. There is nothing wrong with the modeling

[waystin2]

was it a 110C? If it was then your mistaken. The 110C can pull harder in a flat turn than a seafire as long as the 110 has E to play with. There is nothing wrong with the modeling

Yep,  It probably was.  Not to mention that both the G & C perform admirably when lightened of ords and fuel.

[Anaxogoras]

Even a 110G turns well if it has lots of energy.

My advice is that you learn a better defensive tactic than a simple turn.

[SlapShot]

I'll bet you don't know how fast he was going.

It sounds like he was able to pop flaps and easily turn with and inside you while you pulled black-out Gs trying to avoid ... which did not allow the Spit to use it's best turn rate.

[BaldEagl]

The limitation for both you and the 110 in this case was where blackout occurs, and, it happens to occur at the same place for both of you (7 G's).  The plane's inherant capabilities had nothing to do with the outcome.

In a high speed, high G turn where you are riding the tunnel you are not turning at your minimum turn radius.  Had you cut the throttle to avoid maximum G's you probably would have turned inside him easily.

In addition, he may have cut throttle to easily turn inside of you.

[LTARadio]

Sounds like Dastrdly was in that 110. The "C" model is a true sleeper as it can dogfight ,very well when in good hands, with a good bit of the other planes. Hope you took notes. 

LTARadio

[Ack-Ack]

Since you also describe the 110 as diving on you, he most likely was able to just cut inside of your turn for the angle. 


ack-ack

[Steve]

Can somebody explain this please.

Poor choice of evasives. I don't mean to offend, so I apologize if you feel slighted. As AKAK mentioned, flat turning on a higher opponent  is akin to surrendering if said opponent is even a decent aim. You are giving him the ability to simply roll for a lead shot. I'm surpirsed you lasted 360 degrees.

Against an aggressive, experienced opponent you would have been meat in a simple pass, in a matter of a couple of seconds.

[RATTFINK]

Since you also describe the 110 as diving on you, he most likely was able to just cut inside of your turn for the angle. 


ack-ack

My thoughts exactly!

While you are in the “tunnel” your periphery would be limited thus the 110 cutting into your turn radius w/o being seen.

You made a blind spot and you made your plane more presentable to a higher con.

[nonaste]

Well guys, thanks for the input. 

I came here after three years in Il-2.  (I was intrigued by the concept of what AH offers.) I'm therefore used to different fms, among other things.  So it simply means getting used to what is presented in AH, for better or for worse.  They are two different games with different strengths and weaknesses and goals, I imagine.

[dedalos]

I just experienced a rather unbelievable outcome after flying a seafire IIc vs. a BF110.

This guy was about 1000' above me and dived on me.  I immediately went into a very sharp left turning orbit, taking advantage of p factor and resulting tendancy towards yaw to port.  This guy started to slowly fall in behind me.  I increased the turn until I was "riding the tunnel" as you like to call it.  The other pilot STILL managed to stay on my tail and shoot me down after following me in over a 360 degree turn. 

How is this possible?  The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33.  The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened.  This makes me wonder about flight modeling.

Can somebody explain this please.

Angles!!!!!!  If he is diving on you, he is not turning.  He is just making small adjustments to his nose.  Also, speed matters too.  The faster plane, will go around on you even if you can turn tighter.  He can cover more distance 

[nonaste]

Poor choice of evasives. I don't mean to offend, so I apologize if you feel slighted. As AKAK mentioned, flat turning on a higher opponent  is akin to surrendering if said opponent is even a decent aim. You are giving him the ability to simply roll for a lead shot. I'm surpirsed you lasted 360 degrees.

Against an aggressive, experienced opponent you would have been meat in a simple pass, in a matter of a couple of seconds.

I can't remember my exact altitude.  It was below a thousand feet which doesn't leave much room for tactics, but one.  I was descending even lower with the intent on sucking him into a turning fight where I would have ate his lunch, if this sim behaved similarly to Il-2, it doesn't.  In Il-2 that is a sound tactic and would have been successful had he took the bait.  No FW or BF is a match for a spit, (even the weakest which is the Mark V.B.) in low level turn fights.  Here, however as I discovered yank and bank is a  different art form with the FMs as presented.  Live and learn, I suppose

[Anaxogoras]

I haven't played Il-2.  Anyone care to elaborate on the differences?

[Ack-Ack]

 In Il-2 that is a sound tactic and would have been successful had he took the bait.  No FW or BF is a match for a spit, (even the weakest which is the Mark V.B.) in low level turn fights.  Here, however as I discovered yank and bank is a  different art form with the FMs as presented.  Live and learn, I suppose

What you describe would have happened in IL2 if the other guy was any good, it's not a quirk of the AH flight model.  You just ran into someone that was a little more proficient or lucky and was simply able to cut inside of your turn.


ack-ack