Urchin's whine.

[Urchin]

I don't know if the radiators in the 190d9 and the Ta152 are SUPPOSED to die at the drop of a hat, but it sure as hell is irritating.  I was kinda hoping that this would be fixed, but either it had been judged 'Historically Accurate' or they only fixed the bug that had the engine in the 190A series dying at the drop of a hat.  Thats all.  Oh, by the way, I guess this is a "Luftwhiner" post, but since I mostly fly German planes, I don't have enough experience to judge whether or not other planes suffer from this problem to.

[Voss]

P51, Tempest, and Typhoon sure do. Judging from what I do to Yaks I'd have to say them too, and Spits as well.

Man, anything will make a zeke smoke. I said "BOO!" to one, once, and he smoked.  

<edit> DOH! I forgot to say something about La7. I've noticed there is a bug with La7. Sometimes it will get hit and start smoking as if it had a radiator hit, but the damage doesn't show on shift-d. This can go wither way, as I've flown one for sevral minutes like that, and had one freeze up quickly as well. </edit>

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]

[Urchin]

I don't know about the LA-7s, they seem mighty tough to me.  I've seen em bloom smoke and fly for 10 minutes fine and dandy.  You get roughly 30 seconds after your radiator gets hit in the Dora, or Ta-152.  You can fly for about 4-5 minutes with the oil hit in a 109 though.

I had heard the Typhoon had that problem as well, but I rarely fly them so I couldn't say.

I will say that when JV44 upped for the TOD this week, we had 2 guys in Ta-152's and 2 guys in 190D9s.  We also had a flight of Me262s.  We had 4 guys go down because they lost their radiators.  Care to take a guess as to which 4 they were?

[funkedup]

La-7 has an air cooled radial.  Those engines tend to be more robust than water cooled engines.

Spits, Tiffies, Mossies, Hurris, Ki-61, all the water cooled planes I fly seem to lose the radiator pretty easily.  By all accounts it was a pretty vulnerable part during the war.  Even rifle caliber MG could take it out with one hit.  A lot of Mustang pilots ended up POW from a round in the radiator.

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[Wilbus]

190 A's and F's engines were known to take alot of dammage, on several ocations they took heavy fire and still made it back, they lost cylinders and made it back. What has been fixed for 1.08 is the 1 ping engine bug wich just skipped the oil and radiator hits and went right to kill the engine. Now I get oil leak and rad leak quite often, the problem with the enigne usually taking hits on some of the first or the first shots, from weird angles still seam to be there. I just finnished a sortie in a 190 F8, had a 109 hit me from straight behind, gor engine oil and killed engine at once on thefirst hit  

Don't know if the problem has been fixed as much as it should.

[Creamo]

190's get the engine hit on 6 shots 90% of the time as first damage. Trust me, thats all I fly.

[R4M]

Absolutely agree, Creamo. Not flown D9 much lately but if I have not got 80% of first damage on the radiator, I have not had ANY damage at all    .

Most times I've got a radiator hit, I take my time to ask the one who shot me where did he hit me. Av8R, the other day, fited me yak9u vs 190D9. He got 3 pings, and my radiator went Kaboom. When he was asked ,he answedred that it had been 3 pings ON THE WING!!!!

I got several more of this....

For instance later that same day I got another radiator destroyed from a plane coming from directly behind (typical pure vertical move going for a hammerhead, and typical roped guy firing as mad from dead six, below). One ping and radiator kaboom. From directly six o'clock. This shouldt be possible.

NO idea on the Ta152. I dont fly a perk plane not worth the perks it costs.

Dora's radiator was ON THE NOSE. It should be REALLY REALLY tough to be hit unless in a front quarter shot. And the episode of the 3 pings in the wings clearly show the damage model doesnt have the radiator on the right spot. maybe the 190D9 and Ta152 engines were not fixed at all while the 190A's were (in 190A5 and 190A8 I've noticed a REALLY lower % of 1 ping engine deaths so those WERE Fixed)


This post is also posted in the Bug Forum, so go there to refute or confirm my points.

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Wotan]

Its more the strange angles that surprise me I imagine water cool eng to be pretty fragile and from all accounts they were.

[Raubvogel]

Yeah, it always amazes me that a round can go all the way thru the length of the fuselage, miss the pilot and take out the radiator.

[Dowding]

The La-7 smoking thing has been around for a while. Usually you receive flap damage, but smoke belches out of the back. I reported it as a bug 6 months ago.

The tiffy's radiator is very fragile it seems to me, but it is very exposed.

[Voss]

Someone tried explaining this as a matter of convergence, where the engine is at the point of convergence and the tail not, however I have had radiator hits at ranges in excess of 650 yards from dead astern. So, that theory is out.

The La7 does indeed show white smoke pouring from somewhere (?) even though there is no radiator to damage and the damage does not show on the shift-d list. This is just a flag to indicate to every enemy in the secotr that you have taken damage and will die that much easier (come get me!). It should not happen.

Still, I would like to see aircraft performance degrade as an aircraft takes on damage. I can't stand hitting a MOSS, watching both engines pouring black AND white smoke, yet the plane performs as well as before. WAY too gamey.

[Dowding]

And the episode of the 3 pings in the wings clearly show the damage model doesnt have the radiator on the right spot.

I'm sorry, RAM, but you're talking bollocks.   One doesn't necessarily follow from the other - what was observed could be attributed to the placement of ping flashes or perhaps net lag. I really doubt HTC would accidently place the radiator on the wing, in the DM.

[R4M]

so let me get this thing straight, downding.

On a given day if I'm in my dora, happily flying around and stuff, and I come and hit a spitfire with 3 pings, in his wing, I must expect his RADIATOR to be hit?. Or maybe his pilot?

Enlighten me, please...because I can't understand your reasoning. If I see my shots hit someone's wing, then I expect his wing to receive the damage, not the nose. And the inverse is truth, if someone reports hitting my wing, I'll expect the wing receiving the damage, not my radiator (wich is placed well clear of the wing.)

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Dowding]

On a given day if I'm in my dora, happily flying around and stuff, and I come and hit a spitfire with 3 pings, in his wing, I must expect his RADIATOR to be hit?

Err... that's what you were basically saying i.e. the DM sees the radiator as being situated on the wing. You used the word 'clearly'. I think it's anything but that. Firstly, there are other explanations that might explain what was seen and secondly, it was a single example.

[R4M]

I think it's anything but that. Firstly, there are other explanations that might explain what was seen


Really?. Care to share such explanations?..because I see none. If I hit one someone's wing and his tail comes off something is screwed. THis is the same.

and secondly, it was a single example.

No, is BY FAR, not a simple example. From 10 deaths in Dora or so I have in this TOD, more than 80% involved a radiator hit, and many of them from impossible angles.. Av8r saw my wing hit, yet the nose came off. Another guy saw hits on my aft fusselage and the nose came off. Another time I was climbing vertically with a con on my six climbing from dead six, and the nose came off (guess the bullets went thru all the  fuselage bulkheads, the pilot, the cockpit, the engine and destroyed the radiator but WITHOUT destroying anything else, isnt it?     )

Something is clearly screwed here. As I said, Dora's radiator should be hit just from the front quarter and be very very difficult, almost impossible ,to receive a bullet from behind. And  here we are talking about radiators hit in any angle possible and thinkable, with one or two pings, and with those pings out of place.

So as I said...enlighten me in those "other explanations" 'cause I just see one...

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]