Author Topic: Flaps still not working properly  (Read 435 times)

SkViper

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2001, 02:41:00 PM »
I was having problems with the Hogs flaps, but I have the hang of it now.

F4U-1C
Full Load: Full Flaps, Brakes on and run the throt up...punch the WEP and release the Brake simultaneously. Let her sink 5ft or so off the end before giving back force on the stick, and get the gear up fast. Run the flaps up as it steady's out.

The lighter the load, the less flap I use.
Launching with 1 DT and Rockets only takes 1 notch of flap and it barely sinks 3 feet off the end.

If I am not mistaken, if the bird is to light, or you use the emergency short takeoff procedure, you will have to hold the tail down as the airflow off the bottom of the flaps will tend to force it up and the nose down in turn.
This should also make the light bird harder to fly (more spoungey) since it will lift off before the airspeed is sufficient for normal aileron control.

I'm not sure how the calculated length of the AH deck, from the point of spawn, compares to the figures above, but it does feel like the run is longer than the numbers.

SkViper
Proud "C" Dweeb! :^)

Offline F4UDOA

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2001, 03:05:00 PM »
I'm not really having trouble getting off the deck. I'm just trying to show that the flaps aren't having the expected effect on take-off run and stall speeds according to the manuals for multiple A/C.

What I think is the telling test is the F4U-1C. I used auto-takeoff no flap or WEP, 2 1,000lbs bombs and it lifted off. When I lowered full flap it crashed into the water. Basically I would expect the flaps to reduce the take-off run by almost two thirds. 680 to 120FT.  

It is possible that the drag is modeled to high relative to the lift provided by them. Just a guess as to what is the cause. I was just hoping to hear from Pyro on the subject.

Offline Lephturn

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2001, 07:53:00 AM »
I think using auto-takeoff invalidates your tests F4DOA.  The auto-takeoff is basically auto-climb.  The aircraft will try to reach a pre-set speed that is the best climb speed for that aircraft at sea level in a clean configuration.  A heavy craft with full flaps will dive into the ocean before it reaches that clean speed.

When you deploy your flaps, you should decrease you auto-speed setting to match.  The tough part would be finding the best climb speed at sea level for each flap and weight configuration.  I think it might be better to just try and do it manually.

I think it would be easier to just test stall speed in various configurations.  I think that would prove your point without the complications.  Maybe a heavy Hog with full gas at various flap settings.  For example get 'em all flying along at 500 feet and find the minimum speed at which level flight can be maintained for each flap position.

<S> for doing the tests.  You went about this in a very professional manner, and I hope others can learn something from it.

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline F4UDOA

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2001, 08:42:00 AM »
Lephturn,

Hmm? I didn't think that auto climb would have that affect during take-off? Thanks for the heads up.

I will re-test manually and see if I can lift off sooner.

BTW I still think the stall speeds with flaps are too high with flaps base on level 1G stalls on some birds being around 75mph with flaps and stalling near 100mph in AH. Just feels like it should be lower, especially on the carrier birds.

Anyway thanks for the compliment on the testing. Would you like cash or a check?
I'll make it out to the Lephturn historical society  

Thanks
F4UDOA

Offline Citabria

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
 


look at the rudder deflection needed!

 
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline F4UDOA

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2001, 11:44:00 AM »
Re-tested manually.

I am able to get F4U-1D of deck with full load fuel, rockets and 2X 1K bomb's. But the same take off run is required. Guess I am looking for shorter take-off as described in the manual. Am I knit picking? I do fly knit you know, guess I can't help myself. Stall speeds are still off.

Citabria,

I know you luv this picture. A P-38 being escorted by F4U's. Hehe

 


Offline Westy

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
 That a Photo-recon P-38 (F-5) of some sorts? Note the glass nose cone on the under wing "tank"

-Westy

Offline Lephturn

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2001, 12:46:00 PM »
Cool F4DOA.  

Posting a nice little chart of test results for different flap configurations and the resulting 1G stall speeds would be awesome.  If something is obviously not right, I'm sure it's something Pyro would look at.  Why don't you post a methodology and lets see if we can recruit some more folks to do the tests.  I'm willing to help.  If it will help, I'll try to work up a test methodology tonight and check out the Jug.

You can save the cheque and buy me a beer at the next con.  

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline AKDejaVu

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2001, 03:31:00 PM »
I'm with westy.. I wonder who was escorting whom

AKDejaVu

LJK Raubvogel

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2001, 03:45:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Westy:
That a Photo-recon P-38 (F-5) of some sorts? Note the glass nose cone on the under wing "tank"

-Westy

I'm guessing that's why the engine nacelle has "Information Please" painted on it.

Offline F4UDOA

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Flaps still not working properly
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2001, 06:26:00 PM »
Considering there appears to be no guns mounted in the nose of the P-38 I think it's fair to say that it is the one being escorted, Hehe.