So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument

[FrodeMk3]

how much US own to China?

That would imply that we invaded Iraq for...China. However, the chinese were buying into Iraqi oilfields' even before GWI, and they lost alot of production due to that. Also, the embargo's after that didn't help either. None of that could have helped China.

The argument that the U.S. invaded Iraq for oil is still valid, though, if you consider that the current Iraqi gov't. might not really be that attached to the U.S. deep down inside. They have repeatedely asked us to remove our troops, and have kept trying to speed up the removal timetable. We removed what had been a ruthless but non-secular gov't. under Saddam Hussein, and replaced it with one that is now open to control by extremist groups. We have to keep troops' there now, not because of secular violence...but because of the possibility that this gov't. will either fall to Iran, or will ally itself with the extremists' wholeheartedly. IMHO, we've made the largest Geo-political mistake we could have made in the Middle east.

[Nwbie]

how much US own to China?

This is the scariest and most compelling point that needs to be assessed

How many people here realize how much China is funding our country?

China has been lending the USA...yes Communist bad guys China.....The Evil Empire ....lol, we owe China billions...

This country is screwed up so bad...but hey -- we have the right to keep and bear arms to form a well organized militia...we got that going for us....I saw on tv last night one of those organized militia guys just shot some other organized militia types on the south side of Chicago... must have been a war game.....heck maybe we can even borrow some more money to invade another country that we really don't like...rather than go after the real culprits

never mind... 
that would be insane, and heck lets have another 4 years of it
I saw an ostrich once with his head in the sand...he was safe ...he was protecting his individual freedom...

[FrodeMk3]

This is the scariest and most compelling point that needs to be assessed

How many people here realize how much China is funding our country?

China has been lending the USA...yes Communist bad guys China.....The Evil Empire ....lol, we owe China billions...

This country is screwed up so bad...but hey -- we have the right to keep and bear arms to form a well organized militia...we got that going for us....I saw on tv last night one of those organized militia guys just shot some other organized militia types on the south side of Chicago... must have been a war game.....heck maybe we can even borrow some more money to invade another country that we really don't like...rather than go after the real culprits

never mind... 
that would be insane, and heck lets have another 4 years of it
I saw an ostrich once with his head in the sand...he was safe ...he was protecting his individual freedom...

I would ask you...Are we into China for so much, can we not get ourselves back out of the "tar baby" trap we've gotten into?

[Nwbie]

I would ask you...Are we into China for so much, can we not get ourselves back out of the "tar baby" trap we've gotten into?

Seriously do not understand what your question is - what is a "tar baby" trap?

[Baitman]

For more on how much the US owes China click on the link.

http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/17/what-the-us-owes-china/

Estimated 1.5 TRILLION and growing by 1 BILLION per day.

 

[lazs2]

people used to say the same thing about the japs just a few short decades ago.. They were buying America!!!

They bought everything in sight.. most of it worthless and they lost their butts on most of it.   Movies and media portrayed an America that by now would all be speaking japanese

Everything old is new again..  especially to the vacant headed.

lazs

[FrodeMk3]

Seriously do not understand what your question is - what is a "tar baby" trap?

It's an analogy to the old childrens' story of Brer rabbit and the Tar Baby. There's different versions of it; Basically, a Wolf and a bear in the story wish to catch the rabbit, who always runs away, mocking them in the process. However, the bear and wolf devise a trap for the rabbit, using his own vanity. They make a sort of dummy out of tar; The rabbit, thinking the "Tar Baby" is someone new, goes up to the Tar Baby and tries to shake it's hand. The tar, however, sticks' to him, and the rabbit get's his hand stuck. Well, then, the rabbit starts' to hit and wrestle with the Tar Baby, only to get himself further and further mired in the tar. Eventually, the rabbit is completely immobilized, and cannot move. At this point, the wolf and the bear simply walk up, and capture the helpless rabbit without having to run a single step.

I used this analogy because more and more of our nations' businesses and industries are falling for the lure of ultra-cheap chinese labor, and that eventually, we will be helpless at the hands of our enemies, both politically and economically.

[ramzey]

That would imply that we invaded Iraq for...China. However, the chinese were buying into Iraqi oilfields' even before GWI, and they lost alot of production due to that. Also, the embargo's after that didn't help either. None of that could have helped China.

The argument that the U.S. invaded Iraq for oil is still valid, though, if you consider that the current Iraqi gov't. might not really be that attached to the U.S. deep down inside. They have repeatedely asked us to remove our troops, and have kept trying to speed up the removal timetable. We removed what had been a ruthless but non-secular gov't. under Saddam Hussein, and replaced it with one that is now open to control by extremist groups. We have to keep troops' there now, not because of secular violence...but because of the possibility that this gov't. will either fall to Iran, or will ally itself with the extremists' wholeheartedly. IMHO, we've made the largest Geo-political mistake we could have made in the Middle east.

stop saying that cuz it sounds like US deny them freedom of choice...lol

[SirLoin]

Who here thinks oil is not a reserve worth protecting ?

And why should we let it fall in the hands of Islamic fascists?

[FrodeMk3]

Who here thinks oil is not a reserve worth protecting ?

And why should we let it fall in the hands of Islamic fascists?

IMHO, we should avoid it as much as possible (I'm talking using Nuclear power for our electricity grid here.)

And if the oil happens to be in countries where the 'Islamic fascists' already live, then...technically, We didn't 'let it fall into their hands', as it was in theirs all along. By that argument, we shouldn't have invaded Iraq, we should have invaded Saudi Arabia instead.

[SirLoin]

Saudi Arabia doesn't seek nukes or repeatedly violate the four conditions which can cause a nation to lose it's sovereign status.

Like Iraq did..(serial violator)

[FrodeMk3]

Saudi Arabia doesn't seek nukes or repeatedly violate the four conditions which can cause a nation to lose it's sovereign status.

Like Iraq did..(serial violator)

And...what are those four conditions, and who set them?

[Gixer]

The decision for war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, war on terror, UN weapons inspections, WMDs, Iraqi human rights,Regime change or any number of other reasons the Bush/Blair spin machine would like us and surprisingly some actually still do believe. Funny how quickly they shifted from WMDs to human rights and regime change as the main reason once it was obvious their were no quantities of WMDs certainly to the degree that Bush,Cheney,Powell argued for to the UN.

Securing the Oil fields of Iraq for increased global supply has always been the strongest most obvious reason for the war. Just unfortunately for Bush it ended up taking a lot longer then the few months they intially thought it would. And certainly a lot costlier in lives and money.

Increased supply = less per barrel for everyone. Whether it comes out of Iraq,Saudi Arabia or the North Sea.

Whether the contracts are going to China,US or Europe, makes no difference at all. If you can't understand those basic economics of supply and demand then I see why you might still clutch to the WMDs and war on terror spin argument.

Plus I'm sure some of that money will eventually make it's way to the US directly one way or another over time.


<S>...-Gixer

[john9001]

why would they go to war when they could just buy the oil from Iraq?

[Gixer]

why would they go to war when they could just buy the oil from Iraq?

Same reason why you can't buy oil from Iran today.


<S>...-Gixer