Author Topic: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument  (Read 1944 times)

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2008, 01:33:58 AM »
The US made a defense pact with the kingdom of Saud in the '40s. The US policy of containment toward Saddam Hussien was causing a major rift in Saudi-American relations. The US had to finish Saddam so that it could pullout of Saudi Arabia. So ultimately, yes it was about oil. Anybody here old enough to remember when the US threatened to invade Saudi Arabia because of oil restrictions?

Suave, could you post a link to that info?

Offline Elfie

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2008, 01:44:46 AM »
dig earlier, history of US conquers starts much earlier ;)

A google search only brings up Operation Downfall, the planned invasion of Japan during WWII.

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The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.

I can find no references where America did that to Japan other than the Allied occupation of Japan at the end of hostilities in WWII.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2008, 02:00:38 AM »
There was no 'invasion'. Americans shipwrecked there.. all 'gaijin' in fact, were summarily executed when they set foot on Japanese soil. The Japanese for 200 years had maintained an extreme isolationist policy. American merchants wanted trade, safe harbor, normal relations. Perry was sent there with a force considered large enough to press the point and the japanese agreed.

Perry's Second Visit to Japan

Perry returned to Japan in February, 1854. He came with seven ships, four sailing ships, three steamers, 1,600 men and dropped anchor 26 miles from the Japanese capital, Edo. The Japanese, worried about the American ships, activated the harbor defenses which included mobilizing soldiers and sending them to harbor forts and batteries.

As soon as the East India Fleet dropped anchor two guard boats came up to Perry’s flagship, but were turned away and sent to the Powhatan where they could talk to Captain Henry Adams. Later, when Perry had recovered from the arthritis attack that had forced him to turn the Japanese away initially, he responded to Japanese demands that he leave and negotiate somewhere else by saying that trade must begin soon, and that all further negotiations were to be carried out in Edo. The Japanese took this as a serious threat because Perry had told them that he planned to move up the bay toward Edo if demands weren’t met soon. He would also shell the city if necessary to get his point across.

The Landing

Perry landed for peace and trade talks on March 8th, 1854. Three naval bands were there playing the Star Spangled Banner. He told the Japanese how the Chinese and United States had both benefited from trade. After much intense negotiations, the Japanese gave in and signed the Treaty of Kanagawa on March 31st, 1854. The treaty guaranteed that the Japanese would save shipwrecked Americans, that they would provide food, coal, water, and other provisions for the American ships that docked in Nagasaki. Then in five years the same supplies could be procured at Shimoda and Hakodate. It also granted the United States permission to build a consulate in Shimoda. The Japanese would sign to all of these things but wouldn’t sign for trade. Eventually the Japanese gave in and trade was granted as well. This ended Japan’s two-hundred year isolation policy.


Ramzey, yup; America understood the rules of the Era.. POWER. Her chief competitor and protagonist for trade... the English Empire. Yup; we fought the Spanish and stole the Philippines, then slaughtered morro's and indigents left and right, ran all over central and south america, invading here, setting up puppet governments there, and did all kinds of stuff the liberal pinheads of today would shed their hair over.

Big freakin deal. Japan should count herself lucky it wasn't a British Fleet that showed up in Tokyo bay. By the standards of the era, we were in fact, benevolent. Even the act of dropping a pair of nukes on them a 100 years later... to end the war THEY started.. especially after Nanking, Bataan and Okinawa was benevolent.. saved several million lives on their side, half again as many on our side.

Deal with it.
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Offline ramzey

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2008, 02:14:46 AM »
I have no problem with that, so is nothing to deal with for me

But its funny to look at all those people who think US is always innocent and they do it for best interest of invaded countries. Messiah of all nations.
Bottom line is, you have to play dirty to gain power, make profit and scare others.
US as well as Russia do the same things, one difference US have better PR specialists.



As for Japan, iirc there was like 2000 marines on shore + ships in the bay. I would call it invasion and treaty signed with gun pointed at head.
There was a reason for JP to hate US for so many years..........



Offline Hangtime

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2008, 02:56:18 AM »
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one difference US have better PR specialists

Really? Where were you educated? Just curious.. I'm guessing you ain't from 'round here. ;)

Regarding the post above.. You think Japan's crazy exeno-phobic racist policies in China and the rest of the pacific rim a 100 years after we opened Japan to trade is why they 'hate' us? A LOT can be said about the utter disconnect between western and eastern attitudes about what constitutes decent treatment of humans in the 20th century, but your gonna have a heluva time 'PR'-wize sellin us the sack of crap that the Japanese were justified in bombing pearl harbor because Perry 'invaded' a century earlier with a dinner invitation and three marching bands playing the star spangled banner.

Well.... maybe if the bands really sucked. But, that's still no reason to rape Nanking. and invade China

'PR" Hunh? You think Japan would have gotten a better deal post war from the Soviets? You think the Philippines would have fared better in Spanish hands or American?

Is it just our 'PR' is better, or maybe we did a little better job benevolence -wise than the other big powers of the Era?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Elfie

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2008, 03:42:09 AM »
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As for Japan, iirc there was like 2000 marines on shore + ships in the bay. I would call it invasion and treaty signed with gun pointed at head.

So we invaded with 3 naval bands.....gotcha.  :D

While Perry did use threats of force, honestly......do you really think he could have conquered Japan with less than 2000 men? I'm pretty sure he realized the futility of such an action, just as I do, and if you are honest, you do also.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Suave

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Re: So much for the US invading Iraq for oil argument
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2008, 03:36:20 PM »
Suave, could you post a link to that info?
During the 1973 oil embargo the US administration made it known that military action against Saudi Arabia was a consideration.

Do a video search on "The House of Saud". It is a very educational piece on the history of saudi-american relations.