Where's All of the P47 Pilots hiding?

[Anaxogoras]

OK don't believe me.  Your choice.

And yes slow a P47 will out turn half the 109s

No, I am glad you believe it.

Seriously, I have had many stall fights in the 109G-6 vs D-11s in the ava (only place where you're likely to get that matchup), and I am yet to lose one, especially when the fight got low and slow on the deck.

[Lusche]

No, I am glad you believe it.

I'd go even further and hope that he can lead as many Jug pilots as possible to believe that too.
Most of them will try it only halfheartedly and then they will go boom

[Hajo]

Spikes the D40.....simply for the Horse Power.

The N-Jug was designed for the Pacific theater.  It is loaded with extra fuel tanks for better range.

The M-Jug was designed for the ETO.  I was slightly faster then the N-Jug.

[Hajo]

Gents I've proven it.  Done it more then a few times

Oh....and I usually won't pick, I'll only enter a fight to make it even.  And I ask if help is needed.

You can check though.   I rarely check my score....but for this I did. 

P47D40     95 kills      I think 16 or 17 deaths.

But what do I know.....I just have fun

[BnZ]

OK don't believe me.  Your choice.

I not have to "believe" you, I already understood that an airplane unloaded to 0 G has the least drag. That is why I mentioned when I was doing this, the G needle was on 0. Nothing but inertia+thrust from the prop vrs. gravity.

And in the Zoom the P47 will out zoom anything strictly because of it's mass.

Basic Physics gents and also proven.

Not quite. The relationship of the airplane's mass to it's  drag is the important part. Even in the realm of ballistics, the more aerodynamically-slick pointed bullet will retain energy better downrange than a round nose, assuming all other variables are equal. (Some ammunition manufacturers have recently developed rifle ammunition with pointed plastic nose cones that can safely be loaded in tubular magazine lever-actions for this very reason.) That is why I wanted information relating to the flat plate equivalents for various a/c.

Also, thrust from the engine probably plays a factor in there somewhere.

And yes slow a P47 will out turn half the 109s and all the 190s.  It will also out turn a P51.

The 109s are the bone of contention, not the P51s and 190s. Someone needs to check DokGonzo's on this.

[bj229r]

If any jug pilot here can regularly beat a decent stick in a K4, I'll drive to whatever state he lives in and mow his yard

[Bronk]

If any jug pilot here can regularly beat a decent stick in a K4, I'll drive to whatever state he lives in and mow his yard

Who picks the alt?

[Hajo]

No one in game can regularly beat anyone.  Believe me from experience.  What I am basically saying is.

Don't underestimate a P47.  It can take you by souprise.  It turns better then most think, and if the K4 is 20K

and the Jug is also (D Model) it's a fair fight.  Generally if you are fighting in a furball otd with more then a few planes,

the first to be shot will be the Jug by someone entering the fight from a little higher.  But try the Jug otd....drop the flaps.

Toad and I have fought otd he in a Yak and me in a D11.  I got the Jug so slow he augered.  Yep....the jug was still flying

but with lots of rudder input to keep from dropping a wing.  4 notches of flaps do wonderful things.

[BnZ]

The N-Jug was designed for the Pacific theater.  It is loaded with extra fuel tanks for better range.

I believe this fact has actually caused some confusion in regards to the P-47 D-40's and the P-47N's climb rate. The difference is not as drastic as it would appear.

On the official HTC test charts, both Jugs appear to have been tested at weights consistent with 50% fuel for both.  But the N-Jug carries much more fuel. According to the E65, the N-Jug has almost exactly the same flight time at Military power (57 minutes, burn set to 1) with 50% fuel as the D-40 does with 75% (61 minutes.)

Testing them clean, at Military power, with the same gun package (8 M2s, 267rpg), with 50% fuel for the N, and 75% for the D-40, on autoclimb right off the airport at sea level, I got a ROC of just under 2,200 FPM for the N as soon as it settled down, compared just just under 2,500  FPM for the D-40.

Repeating the process on WEP, both aircraft settled down to climbing at around 3,280 FPM.

<S>

[LilMak]

Who picks the alt?

Yea my -D40 vs any 109 @ 25+K.  

Seriously though. Certain 109s give me fits and others rarely beat me in my Jug. The hardest 109s seem to be the F and K. As always, it depends on pilot skill but these are my general observations.

The K is simply a helicopter that has double the climb rate of the jug. Unless the fight is above 20K the P47 is almost always at a disadvantage (which equals 99.99% of the time in the MA). Turning radius has nothing to do with fighting a 109-K because it can just hang on it's prop and wait until you do something stupid. Also the 30mm tater will most certainly bring the most hardy of planes down with a single round and the monster Jug is an easy target compared to other fighters. Often I can survive a snap shot from a 20mm armed 109 but a 30mm will take off parts that are critical to the outcome of the battle.

The 109-F is the wolf that gets me because it doesn't need nor rarely does it fight like any other 109. It can turn very well and by the time I get close enough to realize that it's not the typical 109, I'm already in trouble and need to rethink my attacks and defense. I think that the sticks that fly -Fs are usually above average or better.

[MjTalon]

I'm currently about to pop online for a bit and start up with the squadron, lilmak i'm rooks so if you still would like to wing a bit, by all means  catch me online.

[Platano]

<--Member of the 56th that joined the evil K4 flying Muppets someone mentioned earlier..

<---Flies K4's AND jugs...

and no Jugs will not outturn a K4.

Have a nice day. 

[Dragon]

We are here Talon, many questions to answer, today was an off week, we meet next week on Sunday at 2pm EST.  Lilmak is a great stick and flies Rook too. Trukk is the best wingman I ever had, sticks to me like paint.  Look him up too, also a rook.  Majissue is also a good Jug pilot, but not normally rook.  I love the 25 for most sorties, but have more luck with the 11 or 40.  As to the K4 thing, bring it on all.  Halo, we could use another good stick next Sunday if your interested.  We meet in the TA and then check the maps to dicide if we will be running fighter or jabo and for which country as we are neutral.  Boxboy, BobTom, Stodd, Redlegs, Caz, WWhiskey, all of ya get a <S> I know I'm forgetting a lot of the regular JUG pilots, but I'm going to blame it on the fact that I spent all day yesterday in the hot sun watching the Cleveland Air Show and today I was in the yard burning any part of my body that didn't get enough sun yesterday.  FYI, beer does make sunburn feel better.  
5pointO, it would be nice if you could join us for a ride.
On another note, I did check the flight training schools and am considering sending LilDragon and I to get our private pilot licenses.  Ouch.  I had a chance to get mine a few, well a lot of, years ago through the scouts and I didn't complete it, biggest mistake of my life I think.

Looking forward to next week.  See ya'll in the TA at 1:45.

[WWhiskey]

found them!
 

[Dragon]

I forgot about that day, love the pic WWhiskey.