The spiral climb

[Sonicblu]

Would like some help understanding the reason and the why and when a spiral climb is good with an opponent on your six.


Do I have the definition right?  It is just a nose up flat turn.

[TequilaChaser]

Would like some help understanding the reason and the why and when a spiral climb is good with an opponent on your six.


Do I have the definition right?  It is just a nose up flat turn.

it can not be a flat turn if it is climbing nose up (Spiral Climb ).

it is a nose above horizon spiraling climbing turn in either the left or right direction....with the rate of climb varying depending on the circumstances.

to drain your opponent of their E, and to cause them to stall out so you can roll in for the quick kill...that's it in a nutshell.but to be proficient at performing this tactic, one must have a good grasp on recognition of energy states ....between themselves and their opponent.as well as closure rates and distances of angle off

hope this helps........

[TequilaChaser]

good example:

 109K4 pulling this maneuver on a spit V

bad example:

spit V pulling this maneuver on a F4U-1

[Spatula]

Just to add to what TC has already mentioned, the short answer as to the 'when', is you do it when you are sure that you have a sufficient energy margin and/or a large climb-rate advantage over your opponent such that you can spiral climb higher than your opponent and yet stay far enough ahead and up of their nose as to avoid them getting a shot on you.
Assuming they blindly follow, you will be in a good position when they stall out underneath you to kick some inside rudder and drop down on their stalled crate and blast it. The key is that they run out of energy before you do, otherwise they will just pull up behind you and knock you off your perch.
The real answer is knowing not when in terms of timing, but in terms of relative energy and relative positions to each other.

[Mr Blue]

good example:

 109K4 pulling this maneuver on a spit V

bad example:

spit V pulling this maneuver on a F4U-1

freakin 109s always gets me on that move.. (me on a P47) now when i see one happening.. i tend not to climb after him.. unless i am coming in from a dive, cuz then ill reach him fast and get a shot sometimes from even 800-1000 ft or yrds or whatever it is away.. (only cuz of the great fire power of the thunderbolt)

[humble]

another aspect is torque, I've found that the Boston is particularly effective in a climbing right hander vs planes like the F4U and 109 that have a lot of torque...I'll see if I can find a clip or two from this weekend and snip a spiral climb or two out.

[killnu]

to bait them up in the spiral climb, you must give the appearance of giving them a shot...as they pull harder lead to get that shot, they lose E.  That is the way I view it as I do it to others. 

[BaldEagl]

to bait them up in the spiral climb, you must give the appearance of giving them a shot...as they pull harder lead to get that shot, they lose E.  That is the way I view it as I do it to others. 

Correct.  Properly done they pull a higher climb rate than you do trying to stay inside your turn which causes them to bleed E even faster.  The potential trade off is you burning E turning vs them burning E climbing harder.

[Ack-Ack]

to bait them up in the spiral climb, you must give the appearance of giving them a shot...as they pull harder lead to get that shot, they lose E.  That is the way I view it as I do it to others. 

Yep, I always start my spiral climbs a little wide to sucker the other guy to follow.  As I climb, my spirals grow progressively tighter, forcing the other guy to pull more lead to get the angle and blowing his energy state in the process.


ack-ack

[MajWoody]

Correct.  Properly done they pull a higher climb rate than you do trying to stay inside your turn which causes them to bleed E even faster.  The potential trade off is you burning E turning vs them burning E climbing harder.

As well as them burning e trying to pull lead for the shot. They must turn tighter than you to pull lead.

[Anaxogoras]

The spiral climb is a great choice of maneuver when:

1.  Your opponent's aircraft turns better
2.  You have a significant edge in sustained climb rate

The spiral climb is de rigueur for any 109 pilot, but it doesn't work so well against the Spit XVI (which accounts for more than half the spitfires flown in the main arena).

[Yenny]

Basically you're trying to use your air speed and climb rate (better know you got more then ur opponent duh). Let him get on your six, drag him upward. Then pulling G as you go up, so you won't be staying in his piper. As he try to follow those G, he'll bleed out and stall and that's when you kick hard rudder nose down and go for the kill=)

[whiteman]

I fly the F4U's most the time and use this quit a bit with success. Had a Ki-84 surprise me the other day cause he was able to continue to climb behind me but wasn't able to get a shot but wasn't stalling either. I was able to hang around long enough with a 51D that tried it on me a week ago, didn't climb to him and even went a bit level for a bit to get enough speed till he stalled.

[iTunes]

a right  spiral climb that starts about 2k per min then grows tighter and steadily increases to 3/4k per min is deadly to other crates when done by a 109 (esp K4)

[vizwhiz]

Got advice to use this manuever early on cuz I drive the spit16 a lot...
One thing to do is take a look through the climb rate data for each plane in the list...see which ones have high rates of climb, which ones don't...

I found that a good place to practice this is when you're down around the ground taking out a base (pre-vulch) and they're upping a lot of planes to defend...they're slow, they're climbing out, and you can usually start out with a small energy advantage in that situation...

Just another thought tho, you have to watch SA doing this...it's easy to be looking in the mirror watching for that "best time" to turn on your opponent and get picked when you're in a low E state...high picking pony, typh, or LA, coming down on you typically, cuz you're looking back and down .