Canadian Consensus - View our election through the neighbor's window :)

[themaj]

My guess is the guy who wrote the article (for money) was sitting a coffee shop and p.oed cause he couldn't have a smoke with his coffee. Yeah were all socialist up here I tell ya.

Oh, and by the way I did read the article and I was gonna do a point for point rebuttle, but the whole thing is nonsense.

I'm not gonna do an apples and oranges debate here about Canada vs America either.

To say "a vote for Obama is a step in the direction of the socialist nation of Canada" is weak.

When I vote, I vote for the person/party who best represents my ideas. Not because they came up with best bash against the other choices.

When someone needs to use insults to get their point across, I loose respect for that persons opinion.

[lyric1]

All I can say about the health care system here in the USA is after living half of my adult life here in the USA & the other in Australia that has a national health system as part of it's options. I have found it cheaper with more choices & a better level of service back in Australia compared to the States. Just my experience take it for what it's worth.

[Toad]

To say "a vote for Obama is a step in the direction of the socialist nation of Canada" is weak.

LOL, it's simply true.

When I vote, I vote for the person/party who best represents my ideas. Not because they came up with best bash against the other choices.

What a coincidence! So do I! That's why I'll vote either Ron Paul or Bob Barr. That doesn't mean I shouldn't comment on the other choices though.

TheMaj

When someone needs to use insults to get their point across, I loose respect for that persons opinion.

This is just uncanny! I feel the EXACT SAME WAY!

Did you notice the very first poster to use insults in this thread? 

TheMaj

Anyone who uses the words "all" and "none" to describe citizens of any nation, and then gripes about freedom of speech in the same sentence, is an idiot.

This guy doesn't have a clue! Ice-cream?

Why post this jibberish?

[Anaxogoras]

Canadian free-speech protections do suck, I agree with that much.

[moot]

the US drift towards socialism, things such as the Obamessiah proposes, leads to places that a great many of us do not wish to go.

You really need to know the whole context really well like I did then, to appreciate what I mean, but the moment I stepped back in France after 6 years in the US.. It was all wrong.  Fundamentaly... And even to someone who gave as little credit to and had as much reservation for anything political as I did..  it just couldn't be denied that the cause of most if not all of the mind boggling amount of suckage apparent was rooted in socialistic policies and culture.  It was so obvious once I entertained the thought for a while as I walked all over to bounce the idea off as much evidence for or against it as I could (in rich and poor places alike, e.g. slums, bars, campuses, Rotary members' dinner tables, politician meetings, bullpooping in self-made CEOs' office after hours), it could poke your eyes out.

Random example I most recently noticed.. Elon Musk.  Himself he says he's nauseatingly pro-american.  I don't think that's attraction to something like social programs. I see entrepreneurship, a drive to get things done yourself, economicaly, efficiently, successfuly.  You don't need to be freakin einstein to get engineering degrees, you need only a bit of intelligence but mostly consistent discipline.  Look at any US campus, see the foreign students (e.g. Indian) tearing thru the curiculums with little fat (literaly and figuratively) to show for it. 
Govt checks are only good when you can't help yourself. You'd have to be out of your mind to think that the american dream is something like sucking at the social programs' tit.
As far as Obama or any other politician's policies are concerned.. Before any more money is thrown at something with the intention of improving its output, it needs to be checked for proper health.  You don't prescribe a patient 5000J of extra food or an equivalent amount of excercise if he's not merely fat or anorexic but also has heart problems or something like a drug addiction.  I don't see the point in feeding even more money into (e.g.) schools when what's already there isn't even working efficiently in the first place.. Why feed the troll?  Same thing with every other bloated government agency.  Nevermind the outright socialist rationales like "we must redistribute people's income".

[Anaxogoras]

When I was in France I got pretty sick, probably from the airplane ride over there...the medical care I received was first-rate.  I also know someone who had to spend time in a hospital in France.  After a week of care, the bill was ~$5000, in two parts: intensive care / non-intensive care.  Someone probably has some negative stories, but what I experienced was very positive.

P.S. Why is life expectancy longer in western-European countries with socialized medicine?  They smoke more, drink more, eat a lot of red meat, etc.

[moot]

Time of life depends on more than the medical care.  Med care could be after the fact as much as preventive treatment. I know it's definitely not preventive treatment that I see most people waiting for in doctor's lobbies. Other factors are genetics, what you put in, put out, and what you do with your body in between. etc.
There's also not just a matter of how good the med services you get, in qualifying healthcare systems as more or less good.  I know first hand that medical prep studies in France are world class...  You already get your brains racked for all they're worth in their regular academic courses.  Getting into good college level science curiculums, and even more so medical ones, is only for the very best and most dedicated students.  Add all the other factors large and small, and you get a country that has very good healthcare personel (and a poopload of em going on strike, sometimes even before they're done with studies, because their work conditions blow chunks).
I tallied a hospital bill of ~2500E a few months back.  I paid something like 200 bucks (probably less, can't recall, so it had to be tiny); I had no insurance at the time of hospitalisation.. I just went to get myself on the public healthcare subscription a few days AFTER the fact, and got 90% of it refunded..  That ain't right.  I don't like the fact that someone takes money off my paycheck for someone else's services.  Services that I'll never need myself, so it's akin to paying an insurance plan, for someone else, for something I'll never use myself.  Nonsense.  There's a very thin line between philantropy and robbery.. I don't want the govt telling me where to put my feet.. I can do that myself.  So can anyone else with a minimum of common sense.

[skernsk]

I read the article from start to finish.  Let me try and paraphrase what he is writing from my perspective.

Canadian politics suck.  No party has a clearly defined stance on anything.  And they basically are all preaching the same stuff from behind a different pedestal.  It would be so refreshing to see somebody with 'vision' step up to lead, but our system breeds a 'tow the party line' mentality and no free thinkers survive party assimilation at the Federal level. 

I read more about the American election up here than I do the Canadian.  In fact I can't even tell you the leaders of the party's.  Why?  Who cares, they are going to preech one thing and then do what they want when in power.  Our country is messed up politically, we've been at the teet for too long. 

The writer used healthcare as an example of something that needs to be tweaked in order to sustain itself, and basically from what I know, not one party plans to change anything in that respect.  No party or party leader has the cahones to upset the apple cart and change it.  So, once again to the polls, if you voted liberal all your life you will continue to likewise if you vote conservative.  End result, new election, new leader, no changes in anything.  Boring.

I voted Conservative last time, I probably will once again.  Why?  I hate the Liberals since Mr. Chretien and will not be in favor of that party of crooks running my country.

If I were American, I am leaning towards McCain.  I would wait until the debate concludes before making any final decisions but that is where I put my 'x' to this point.

[Slamfire]

All I can say about the health care system here in the USA is after living half of my adult life here in the USA & the other in Australia that has a national health system as part of it's options. I have found it cheaper with more choices & a better level of service back in Australia compared to the States. Just my experience take it for what it's worth.

As someone who lived his first 31 years of life in Canada, and the rest in the USA, I share your opinion.  My sister is also a Canadian medical doctor so I still have inside personal ties to "that scene".

Canada's health care system is in shambles - waiting times for things like colonoscopies, CAT scans, MRI etc are typically > 3 years and usually involve traveling 100s of miles.   I had my last colonoscopy in Texas - took 3 day wait, and I had to drive 2 miles.

Also, Canada's healthcare system is UNIVERSAL, not FREE. 

I CRINGE every time I hear an ignorant left-leaning American describe Canada's Rainbow N' Butterflies "Free Healthcare".

Universal means it's all from one common fund, and it has to be lowest possible denominator quality (it is).  Also it is NOT free - it's paid for by income tax - which explains why Canada's income tax rate was DOUBLE in my case (56%) than it was here in the USA (30%) for my income bracket.  Also, sales tax on all goods sold was double (15% vs 7-8%).  You can't live a life like that - the money I saved every year (comparatively speaking) was roughly equivalent to a NEW CAR every year (25k).

Ask yourself - as an American, could you AFFORD a DOUBLING of your income tax ?

Canada's grand experiment with socialism has been a tragic failure - it is commonly recognized as such - and the country is slowly moving back to the old ways, as is evident in the last, and now upcoming elections.

We tried socialism - it didn't work in Canada, and it will never work in the USA.

[Slamfire]

I wonder how many Canadians declare bankruptcy each year due to medical bills? Last I heard the number in the US was close to 2 million..... Sounds broken to me, but that is just an opinion.

In my personal case, my Canadian medical bill was roughly $25k a year more than it is here in the USA - and I only get a yearly checkup + a colonoscopy every 10 years.

Another way to look at it:  those who pay income tax in Canada not only pay for their own medical care, they pay for someone else's.

[straffo]

it was not socialism.

[themaj]

"When someone needs to use insults to get their point across, I loose respect for that persons opinion."

-This is just uncanny! I feel the EXACT SAME WAY!-
-Did you notice the very first poster to use insults in this thread? -

hehe good one
But my point was that he is an idiot.
Listen, I'm no political affentionado, but the referenced article claimed to be describing me, a Canadian, and I found it offensive & untrue.

[Toad]

My point is that calling someone an "idiot" is an insult.

And I know how you "loose" respect for those guys.

And he didn't describe you; he described the Canadian political scene the way he sees it. Makes you just want to muzzle him, doesn't it?

[themaj]

I still think that he is just p.oed that he can't have a smoke with his coffee

[Anaxogoras]

It always puzzles me when someone warns that income taxes will increase, or even double, for universal health care in the USA because it's a known fact that we pay more $/person for healthcare in this country than those with universal care, e.g the Netherlands seems to have a very efficient system.  First, we're assuming the money would come from income taxes.  Second, we're assuming any additional tax burden would not be offset by the over-all savings.

When my mom's cancer reached it's final stages, my step-father had to take money out of his 401K to pay for her care because it was no longer itemized as "medical care" by the insurance company.  That's just so fluffied, and now where's his retirement?  Other people are worse off than that, and when someone in their family becomes very sick they lose even more.

All I hear is "I, I, I..."  "I don'wanna pay for someone else to go to the doctor, I wanna be left alone, I don't want no government managing my health care, etc."  What bromide.  The reality and experiences of ordinary Americans with our healthcare system should make us ashamed.