Oo, my lovely P47

[Stoney]

D-11 a smidge faster on the deck than the D-25, but D-25 climbs better.

[abc123]

400-500 hits...?

[BoilerDown]

She's fat, ugly, and sluggish, but she's also stout, beautiful, and nimble. The P47 and exercise in duality if you fly it to the extremes. The more you fly it, the more you'll like it.

(with apologies to Lucky Jack)

The P-47 is not fat; no one would call her ugly. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine warbird: weatherly, stiff and fast... very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not sluggish; at altitude she's in her prime.

[VonMessa]

Blasphemer !!!

(or identity crisis?) 

You talk about the jug, yet you sport a black 14 in your signature?

What will your 109 say when you climb into the cockpit smelling like a jug?
 

[Stoney]

D40 climbs better then both.  D40 best of the P47 birds for MA play. 

NJug climbs lousy below 20K and is designed for 27K to 30K escort in the PAC.

NJug holds more fuel then the other Jugs.  75% fuel in an N Jug is 45mins to 55 mins of fuel.

I've not yet been convinced that this is the case.  At the same weights, the P-47N should dominate the D-40 in performance.  The biggest difference on the AH charts is because the D-40 power/speed curves are shown at a weight that's approximately 2200 lbs. lighter than the P-47N power curves are shown.  To be a true comparison, make both planes weigh the same, put fuel burn on 0.0 and see which one climbs faster on both Military and WEP.  I'm thinking they'll be practically the same on Military, with the N getting a couple of hundred FPM better on WEP.  The P-47N also has more wing area, and more flapped wing area, so again, at the same weights, it should turn better than the D-40, especially during sustained turns with WEP (lower wing loading).

The key to using the November is to make sure its at fighting weight before you fight.  Since most folks only use it as a bomb truck, its air-to-air potential  is wasted.  I used to watch Wolfala land 12 kills per sortie in the November, and do it in about 30 minutes.  He may argue that the D-40 isn't the best MA Jug.

[Krusty]

I agree with regards to the D40/N debate. There are some minor differences between the two, but if you remove wing gas tanks from the equation, they should be pretty close in performance off-WEP. With WEP the N should dominate the D40 (given same weights).

I never up a D40 with less than 100% (and often with a center DT), but I never up a N with 100% -- 50% most of the time, 75% if I want a REALLY long sortie or plan on going up to 25k+.

That tells you there's a significant difference in how folks load them out, and that the "full loadout" charts might not be the best indicators in this situation.

[Hajo]

They're not the same weight.

[BushLT1]

I thought Hajo was La-7 guy . 

[macleod01]

I couldnt help it. When I saw the the title, I laughed. It reminded me of the song 'My lovely horse' from Father Ted 

[/hijack]

[Stoney]

They're not the same weight.

The P-47N has a heavier empty weight, but that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that at the same weight (which can be accomplished in-game as long as the D-40 is carrying at least 75% fuel) the P-47N outperforms the D-40.  I don't claim that the P-47N will outclimb a D-40 when both are carrying 100% fuel.  Seeing how the P-47N can carry practically 1.5 times the internal fuel of the D-40, there has to be some sort of handicapping for weight involved.  I don't fight the N at max gross.  To be honest, I rarely fight it at the 16000+ lbs the power curves in-game show.  That's my point--that to compare the two curves at face value doesn't present an honest comparison... 

[Stoney]

Had to get home to check my book numbers:

P-47D model empty weight:  10,000 lbs
P-47N model empty weight:  10,998 lbs

Not sure how well this is represented in game, but the performance curves are for a 2200 lb weight difference.  Since the empty weight difference is just shy of 1,000 lbs, that means the posted curves account for a 1200 lb fuel/payload difference.

[BnZ]

Even at weights balanced for "fairness" as Stoney alludes to, the D40 does indeed slightly edge the N in Mil climb and turn. I believe its even slightly faster on Mil.

However, the D40 does not out-climb, out-turn, out-accelerate, out-roll, OR out-run the Spit16, or a whole host of other nasty beasties any Jug in the LW MA is likely to recieve unwanted attention from. The P-47N can percolate at a level speed on the deck that challenges the P-51D, for 5 minutes at a time anyway. Not only does this allow it to leave in the dust things it might be useful to run away from (Spits, N1Ks, etc), it allows it to stand a much better chance of catching things one might highly desire to chase down (190s, 109s, P-51s, hell, even a Lala if you've got some alt to convert.)

So until they give us a P-47M or a perked "field mod" D that can pull the historically ubiquitious 72" manifold, realistically speaking the P-47N remains the way to go.

[Stoney]

Even at weights balanced for "fairness" as Stoney alludes to, the D40 does indeed slightly edge the N in Mil climb and turn.

Not to be obtuse, but do we have data to back that up?  If so, its somewhat counter-intuitive.

[Anaxogoras]

I agree with Stoney, that makes no sense bnz.  If both weigh the same, why would the D-40 outperform the N?

[BoilerDown]

Not to be obtuse, but do we have data to back that up?  If so, its somewhat counter-intuitive.

If its nearly 1000lbs lighter weight at equal fuel and ammo loads, it seems intuitive to me.