German PB1 Rockets

[SmokinLoon]

Has anyone ever done the testing on the German PB1 air to ground rockets to see where they fall in line with the rest of the available air to ground HE rockets?  According to sources the PB1 rockets are simply the standard German 8cm HE morter warhead attached to a rocket.  The PB2 (which we dont have) is a shaped warhead and if iirc, is the same as the pzrshreck warhead and is reported to be that much more effective vs ground targets.  The Me262 had a variant that was fitted with 24 of the PB2 (12 to a wing) towards the end of the war, they were fire in 2 volleys of 12.

I dont seem to need any more of the of PB1 rockets (2) to take out ords, barracks, or fuel as compared to the 3.5 or 5in rockets (I dont recall if the 4.5in rockets have enough "oomph" as I dont use them) so one can assume that the PB1 falls into place among the others easily.  I'm just cursious. 

Oh... and sources also say that the Fw190F-8 carried two racks of 8 rockets, not two racks of 6.  Can we get this verified, HTC?  It might change the face of air to ground combat in AH2 of one can take 16 rockets on a Fw190F-8 into the rodeo.   

[Lusche]

The PB1 didn't use a mortar warhead. It used the hollow-charge warhead of the "Panzerschreck" 8,8cm anti tank rocket launcher, the German equivalent of the Bazooka.

[Spikes]

Uh, isn't the rockets AP, not HE?

[Anaxogoras]

Uh, isn't the rockets AP, not HE?

Yup, they are great for taking out tanks.

[SmokinLoon]

Here is the only info I came across online for quoting purposes...

Copy-n-Pasted from a website that used "German Aircraft Weapons of WWII", by Ellis Kalhsberg, as a source.   

...
One of those was the Panzerblitz 1 rocket. Developed by Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabrik, the Panzerblitz (Pb1) was a more successful missile than the Panzerschreck 1 that preceded it. The rocket consisted of an 80mm mortar grenade (Gerat M8 -Device M8) mated with the R4M air-to-air missile. In 1 Sept 1944, four Pb1 launch rails were installed under the wing of Fw-190F-8 Werke Number 733705 for trails. Tests showed the rockets could be launched from about twice the distance from the target (about 200 yards) as the Panzerschreck but with a maximum target approach speed of 305 mph, the aircraft was vulnerable to ground fire.

The number of rockets fitted beneath each wing rose to six and finally standardized on eight very late in the war. Not surprisingly, the smaller warhead penetrated only 90mm of steel. At first, the rockets were fired in two salvos, but later launched in pairs. On 1 January, 1945, the pilot of an Fw-190F-8, equipped with the Pb 1, crash landed near Asche, Holland, giving the Allies their first glimpse of the new weapon system.

Production of the Fw-190F-8/Pb 1 received high priority and, by February 1945, 115 aircraft were so equipped. Meanwhile, the infamous SS-controlled factory near Brno, Czechoslovakia, were producing missiles at the rate of 16,000 a month. By February, 1945, some 43,850 missiles had been manufactured.  The PB1 type was replaced by Panzerblitz 2, a modified R4M with a Panzerschreck warhead, capable of penetrating 180mm of armor, but that is another story. The Panzerblitz 1 system also equipped a small number of BMW 801 TS powered Fw-190F-9 aircraft that started leaving the Arado and NDW production lines in October of 1944.
 ...

Another source says [oh, yes, conflicting info.  How typical wouldnt you say?] that that both the Pzrschreck and Pnzrblitz were 88mm and that the Pb1 did have an AP and not an HE warhead on it. - "The Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII", edited by Chris Bishop.


Are ALL of the air to ground rockets in AH2 of the AP type warhead???  The 3.5in (25lb) actually had two types: the AP and SAP (semi-AP).  I dont have info readily available on the 4.5 or 5in rockets.  Still need to find some printed info on them...       

[Cthulhu]

The PB1 didn't use a mortar warhead. It used the hollow-charge warhead of the "Panzerschreck" 8,8cm anti tank rocket launcher, the German equivalent of the Bazooka.

Don't be modest Lusche. "Equivalent" really doesn't do the Panzerschreck justice. The larger 88mm warhead on the Panzerschreck, though more cumbersome, was a Hell of a lot more destructive than the Bazooka's 60mm warhead.

[Spikes]

Yup, they are great for taking out tanks.

Thought so. It's fun trying to take tanks out with them. I use them more for porking than that though.

[Murdr]

Has anyone ever done the testing on the German PB1 air to ground rockets to see where they fall in line with the rest of the available air to ground HE rockets? 

Ummm yea.  The Trainers Site is your friend.

[SmokinLoon]

Ummm yea.  The Trainers Site is your friend.

Heeeeeeeey.  Will ya looky at that.  It has been updated.  My printout doesnt have a few of those on there.

Thanks for pointing out the update.   

However.... I will challenge that 93.7 rating because it takes 16 of the PB1 to sink a destroyer (2k lbs required).  That equates to a power of 125,  unless of course I'm forgetting something.  Perhaps the modifier of the 190F-8's airspeed when launched???  I'm not sure if I am reading the preface correct on the Relative Projectile Strength chart.  If a destroyer an OBJ or does it act more like aircraft or gv?

Thanks.

[Murdr]

Heeeeeeeey.  Will ya looky at that.  It has been updated.  My printout doesnt have a few of those on there.

Thanks for pointing out the update.   

However.... I will challenge that 93.7 rating because it takes 16 of the PB1 to sink a destroyer (2k lbs required).  That equates to a power of 125,  unless of course I'm forgetting something.

The information in the help files reflects what it takes to destroy an object plus a margin of error.  The math will not give an accurate result using those figures as a basis.  Not only is the actual game harndess settings lower than the even bomb figures listed, but the bombs damage potentials are not linear.  A 500lb bomb is not exactly 1/2 the strength of a 1000lb bomb, nor is a 100lb bomb 1/10th a 1000lb bomb.  A 1,000lb bomb however is the metric that the game uses to express the hardness of an object.

Whenever the projectile is strong enough, and can be fired individually, I test it by adjusting the hardness of the target.  With the PB1, it would destroy the target in one shot with the hardness set at 0.0937, but not with the hardness set at 0.0938.  Therefore when compared to the 1,000lb bomb, the individual PB1 is worth less than 93.8, but at least 93.7lbs.

[SmokinLoon]

The information in the help files reflects what it takes to destroy an object plus a margin of error.  The math will not give an accurate result using those figures as a basis.  Not only is the actual game harndess settings lower than the even bomb figures listed, but the bombs damage potentials are not linear.  A 500lb bomb is not exactly 1/2 the strength of a 1000lb bomb, nor is a 100lb bomb 1/10th a 1000lb bomb.  A 1,000lb bomb however is the metric that the game uses to express the hardness of an object.

Whenever the projectile is strong enough, and can be fired individually, I test it by adjusting the hardness of the target.  With the PB1, it would destroy the target in one shot with the hardness set at 0.0937, but not with the hardness set at 0.0938.  Therefore when compared to the 1,000lb bomb, the individual PB1 is worth less than 93.8, but at least 93.7lbs.

Ah... thanks for the clarification.  You have shed a lot of light on how ord works in the game.  Just because something is X weight doesnt mean it is going to have Y damage.   Basically... roll the dice.