Author Topic: Natural gas Cars  (Read 498 times)

Offline Kaw1000

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Natural gas Cars
« on: September 11, 2008, 09:17:52 AM »
I was sent this artical today and found it intresting...the only problem is that
there is not enough fueling stations around for supply.
I guess the oil companies are slow rolling the natural gas thing. :frown:

Tax incentive boosted the use of natural-gas cars in 2000

Now owners of the vehicles feel abandoned

 

Long before $4 gasoline, Arizona’s state legislature passed a tax incentive program to promote the purchase and use of CNG fueled vehicles. It was so popular the state’s expected $10 million price tag ballooned to $483 million. Now owners of the vehicles are having trouble finding refueling stations.

 

This may be another example of government incentive programs gone awry. In the year 2000, well before this year’s run up in oil and gasoline prices, Arizona was ahead of the curve- promoting the use of CNG vehicles with tax and other incentives. Today, Arizona residents may be scratching their collective heads wondering what the nearly $ ½ Billion program achieved.

 

Proponents of government sponsored incentive programs to promote the purchase and use of hybrid, plug-in electric and other alternative fuels should study the program in Arizona. From a report found in The Arizona Republic many of those induced to purchase CNG equipped vehicles back in 2000 are not too happy with the way it turned out.

 

Some, like Marty Midgley, the owner of a 2001 GMC Yukon that runs on CNG feels like he is stuck with a technology that is not supported with a refueling infrastructure.  He would love to sell the SUV, but laments, “I don’t know how you could.  Who would buy it?”

 

Owners of some of these seven and eight year-old vehicles also complain that finding someone certified to work on the system is becoming more and more difficult.

 

SanTan Honda Superstore in Chandler is one place that does continue to work on and sell CNG vehicles.  However, their alternative-fuel manager (I’ll bet you don’t have one of them!) said that they are expecting some 2009 CNG cars from Honda, but don’t really know when to expect them in inventory.

 

According to the many ads being run by T. Boone Pickens to promote wind power and CNG-fueled have a cost efficiency of about 40%- meaning that you can go the same number of miles for close to half the cost of today’s high-priced gasoline.  If that is not incentive enough to build the refueling system, what is?

 

Somewhere in all the schemes being promoted to beat dependency on foreign oil, there must be a solution.  But one should expect to hear more stories like this one as we work through the alternatives.

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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 09:39:40 AM »
were i am there is not a station for cng in 150 miles , so i have been trying to find out how to get a grant to build one, without much luck i might add.
 i live right on i-40 so it is a very good place to have one,for the travelers, then come the city contracts, sounds like a win/win , too me!
 anybody know were i can find  o say $300,000? :aok
Flying since tour 71.

Offline john9001

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 09:58:56 AM »
a bank?

write up a business plan, go to a bank, get a SBA covered loan.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 10:00:58 AM by john9001 »

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 10:01:24 AM »
sorry  :huh i meant  some place were i could get, say $300,000  :rofl :rofl
   oops thanks just saw your revision !
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Offline Mickey1992

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 10:03:34 AM »
Go with the PHILL refueling thingy and eliminate the middleman.  But I imagine it will only be a matter of time before the state/federal government figures out a way to squeeze the highway tax out of those that refuel at home.

Offline john9001

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 10:10:06 AM »
good idea mickey, i never thought of that , i have a gas line at home.

Offline lazs2

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 10:44:58 AM »
know a guy with one.. he says he gets the same milage as a normal gas powered one.  there are few stations but he is going to put one in his garage PHILL as someone said.. it takes 6 hours tho to fill the car.. and.. it costs 4k..

Still.. he is paying about two bucks a gallon.. he will get an even cheaper rate (bulk) once he builds his station in his home.

lazs

Offline rpm

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 03:50:45 AM »
PHILL is a first generation device. If people would just follow the "Pickens Plan" newer more effecient "homebrew" devices will emerge.

From a buisness point of view, why wouldn't you want a CNG fuel port at your gas station? The expense is not that great, and if CNG cars don't take hold you can always refill barbecue tanks at 3x the retail market value of the product like those tank exchange places do today.
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Offline Mojava

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 07:56:37 AM »
 I found this interesting on a Prudhoe Bay website, the author is describing the activities at the gas refinery. http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html.

Quote
All of the water and some of the gas is reinjected back into the ground to enhance the formation pressure. A fraction of the natural gas is used to heat all the buildings in Prudhoe Bay. The rest, an enormous amount, must simply be burned off. There currently* is no practical way to get that gas to market.

*Research and debate is under way right now in Alaska on how to ship the gas. Two of the main options include a new pipeline, and ways to liquefy the gas to send it down the existing pipeline.

Offline IronDog

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 08:18:35 AM »
The big oil barons will crush the natural gas threat,like a snake in their own home.They are not about to let any alternate fuel sources threaten their profits.
IronDog

Offline john9001

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 08:23:24 AM »
irondog, the "big oil barons" are really big energy barons, they will sell you any type of energy they can.

Offline Kaw1000

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 08:39:43 AM »
I found this interesting on a Prudhoe Bay website, the author is describing the activities at the gas refinery. http://www.d.umn.edu/~hoef0049/prudhoe.html.


Thats just great...a source of power being burnt..sad, real said
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Offline sluggish

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 08:46:55 AM »
PHILL is a first generation device. If people would just follow the "Pickens Plan" newer more effecient "homebrew" devices will emerge.

From a buisness point of view, why wouldn't you want a CNG fuel port at your gas station? The expense is not that great, and if CNG cars don't take hold you can always refill barbecue tanks at 3x the retail market value of the product like those tank exchange places do today.

BBQ grills do not use NG they use propane.

Offline Mickey1992

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 08:52:56 AM »

Offline Elfie

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Re: Natural gas Cars
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 08:57:51 AM »
The big oil barons will crush the natural gas threat,like a snake in their own home.They are not about to let any alternate fuel sources threaten their profits.
IronDog

Why would they? They are the same ones that pump Propane and Natural Gas out of the ground.
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