JSF "clubbed like baby seals"

[Elfie]

yes, it is. each and every time i see any videos of them, it impresses the watermelon out of me.

BUT,,,,,,,a majority of those cool groovy maneuvers we see them do, bleed off a LOT of energy. we all know that is bad.

 besides......say 3 or 4 su27's vs the same number FA18's.......ooo hell......lets go older.......F15's......the eagles will still come out on top...if for no other reason than the US has the best trained pilots there are.

i think

There are relatively few Sukhoi aircraft also. Less than 700 SU-27's were built and far less of the Su-30(+) aircraft. Compared to the vast numbers of some MiGs they are fairly uncommon. (Even the MiG-29 only had 1200+ built)

[-tronski-]

There is no viable replacement anywhere in the world for the F-111. There is no plane that can carry the same bomb load the same distance. The F-111 is a relic from the Cold War. If Australia wants a long range bombing capability they will need to purchase an actual bomber and there is precious few of those today.

Very true - but our F-111's are still servicable and could be easily continued in service till 2020. The idea it is a relic is the reasoning that the last govt. were so desperate to get rid of it, but our F-111's have been continually upgraded since the mid 1990's, its weapon systems are up to current Nato standards and are far more capable than they were since the 70's. No-one thinks to retire B-52s, or B-1 just because the eras in which they were designed for have passed.

 Tronsky

[Elfie]

Very true - but our F-111's are still servicable and could be easily continued in service till 2020. The idea it is a relic is the reasoning that the last govt. were so desperate to get rid of it, but our F-111's have been continually upgraded since the mid 1990's, its weapon systems are up to current Nato standards and are far more capable than they were since the 70's. No-one thinks to retire B-52s, or B-1 just because the eras in which they were designed for have passed.

 Tronsky

I didn't mean to imply that the Australian F-111's were outdated or obsolete, just that the F-111 was designed during the Cold War and with a war in Europe vs the Warsaw Pact in mind.

[SD67]

why doesn't Australia just build it's own planes?

Because we sold all our manufacturing base to China. Just like you guys are busy doing.

[Rich46yo]

The guys who will actually fly them here don't want them either. Does that count for anything?

And who are they?

For a guy who makes a lot of silly comments you dont have one iota of technical or practical expertise. Even worse your research abilities are zero.

You cant compare air wars from 40 years ago with air wars of today. The current state of ATA missile technology is many times superior then those first sidewinders. Everything? Everything on the F-35 is just a different ballgame, From its advanced AESA radar, to its low RCS, to its advanced situational awarness technology, data links, AIM 120/132 ATA and various strike missile packages.....ect

The RCS of a F-35 is going to be at or under 0.0015m2, where'as a MIG-29 is at 5M2. The RCS of the SU-27 is 4M2.

Well what do you think that means actualy in air warfare? When you can see him and get a target solution long before he can see you?

The F-35 does give Australia long range strike capabilities because you have tanker aircraft and precision standoff weapons the US is selling you.

And while we havnt officially retired our long range bombers we have far less of them then we used to. Australia only spends 2.4% of their GNP on defense so if you want to go the route of F-22s, and maintaining those F-111s, it would cost you big time. Because your also spending big dough on Air Defense DDs and LHDs for your navy. You might end up at 4.4% of GNP like America does.

Then SD7 can whine about prices when he feels a "hate America moment" for creating a thread.

[Hangtime]

damn, Rich, yah didn't even leave enough butt cheek to offer us a target to punt!

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Hes never even flown any has he? Outside of Sims? He flys small personal aircraft, along with about 700 million others.

Ask Widewing, he knows Dr. Kopp. It is VERY unwise to dismiss his thoughts out of hand.

[SD67]

Rich, I don't "hate" America.
I've already covered the RCS angle. Against a technologically proficient foe the RCS isn't going to make that big a difference. I also think you've overestimated the F35 stealth capacity.
Whatever aircraft we chose it's going to cost us. If we make the wrong choice it's just going to cost us more, much much more.

[Hangtime]

planning on mass quantities of oriental meterosexual chefs with a penchant for your blooming onion recipe showing up anytime soon?

[SD67]

The way things are going you can never be sure.
I don't have a recipe for blooming onion btw, if you'd be so kind to forward me yours

[AquaShrimp]

The JSF is a multi-role fighter.  I much prefer the idea of having an aircraft for each role.  More (combat) efficient that way.

[FrodeMk3]

The JSF is a multi-role fighter.  I much prefer the idea of having an aircraft for each role.  More (combat) efficient that way.

In theory, if you are using one plane for interdiction, strike, Air Supremecy, and maybe even recon., Your train of supply, spares and support for using just the one plane get's alot simpler than for using two aircraft-and that might be a factor given Australia's distance the OEM plant here in the states...They could produce most of what they need under license, but then you simply devolve back to raw materials', and you sorta still have the same problem; Then you need enough manufacturing for two different sets of aircraft parts, etc, etc. The biggest problem facing anything the Aussie's buy, IMO.

[Ripsnort]

Australians don't need any defensive aircraft. Who the hell would invade Australia?  Fer crissakes, England sent their inmates there hundreds of years ago and now those inbreds have bred like sheep. Genetically speaking, no one wants Australia.    Put up an airforce of bi-planes, any invading country would be laughing so hard that they'd call off an attack. 

[Ponyace]

Australians don't need any defensive aircraft. Who the hell would invade Australia?  Fer crissakes, England sent their inmates there hundreds of years ago and now those inbreds have bred like sheep. Genetically speaking, no one wants Australia.    Put up an airforce of bi-planes, any invading country would be laughing so hard that they'd call off an attack. 

Then explain the Japanese wanting of the island in wwII

[Hangtime]

Fer crissakes, England sent their inmates there hundreds of years ago and now those inbreds have bred like sheep.

Sounds like a great place to drop a coupla rabbits.