No Reson to whine about NO Furballin anymore

[dedalos]

There should be no reason for some of the old timers to come in a clean clocks.
<S>

Just thought of this.  What would be a good a reason for them to come in?

[Damionte]

You can try to be historic or whatever but if the squad's favorite rides aren't available in arena's other than FSO, they won't show.

I've been losing that argument forever!

[Shifty]

Just thought of this.  What would be a good a reason for them to come in?

LOL, they can do the same thing they always did FIGHT.
What exactly is keeping people from fighting?

[dedalos]

LOL, they can do the same thing they always did FIGHT.
What exactly is keeping people from fighting?

Not finding anyone willing to do so?  They moved to MWA, MA and/or DA.  Why even try to do it in the AvA?  I guess that is what I was asking.  What is it about the arena that would atract someone looking for fights? 

I am not trying to put the people managing this down.  However, this is one of those time they they were wrong.  And yes, this is just my opinion

[TheBug]

The planesets would be a good thing to look at as well.  It seems like just about every AvA has some variant of 109 or 190 for Axis and random planes for Allied.  For squads that fly the 109/190's they get the same basic plane including controls. Others like the 353rd rarely see their plane of choice.  I'd suggest opening up the planeset on both sides to the top 5 rides of each side's choice.  You can try to be historic or whatever but if the squad's favorite rides aren't available in arena's other than FSO, they won't show.

I'm sorry I don't understand this at all.  So if we setup an Eastern Front map, we should throw in a P51d, Spitfire, P38, <fill in blank>, etc..  To keep whatever squad that happens to choose those rides as their main happy??

I am sorry, but I am completely against this.  The AvA should be first and foremost the best representation of a "historic" arena we can muster.  The MA offers all the rides.  Not to make any attempt to drive you away, but we have to have something to seperate us from the MA.  If not why bother??

I have made the best effort to give a well balanced planeset and honestly feel I've done a good job.  The match-ups are balanced, fun and relatively historic.  I really don't take that much stock in the fact that the Axis guys have this great advantage by always flying the 109 or 190.  Yes I am sure there is some factor to it, but I believe that a lot of them are just good at this game and would excel in any plane, including the allied one.  With the current setup containing the Spitfire VII, the P51b, and the P38j if you are an Allied pilot and you can't find one of them to your liking I really think you should do a bit more troubleshooting.

I will never have a setup that breaks from a theater planeset to cater to a squad's favorite ride.  It is the beauty of the AvA--  Learn to fly them all  <S>

[Chilli]

I'm not arguing with you, I don't care if you agree with me or not. During Battle of the Aces your were all hot to trot over a milk running war. You even refered to it once as your beloved Battle of Aces. Now you're coming across as some kind of furballer elitist. I was merely pointing out that the very guys that are missing from the picture at the moment, the furballers were the ones that always insisted on limited icons.  If a guy wants to fight he'll find a fight. If a guy doesn't want to fight he'll avoid a fight icon ranges have nothing to do with it.

Sorry, Shifty that you are misunderstanding me and   me elitist?  I like having fun.  I am trying to do less complaining (target is actually zero complaining).  

Just to set the record straight (argument was a bad choice in words - difference of opinion definitely).  Battle of Aces went on too long, had too many glitches and still I had fun.  I had nothing to do with the setup of BOA other than a suggestion that we try something different from land grab.  I still think that as with TheBug's setup a strat setup "could" be developed that could offer a little bit of something for most everyone.  Let me be clear, do not suggest that BOA was "my" design (no matter how much I enjoyed and supported it and am sick of the MA attitudes that believe every battle has to be to grab turf).

Now, we do have a forum to discuss these things and I have been privileged to be included there, but it seems that the current setups have taken all of the development groups time (I post and not one single response in weeks - go take a look for yourself).  I still haven't heard why 3k icon range is better, maybe the real elitist can inform me, but as it seems they have left the arena to do who knows what - run for office - I don't know.

Shifty, you are a good friend and I do value your opinion.  I hope that you could step outside of your point of view and simply realize that on my computer, it is next to impossible to find enemy cons that are not right in front or above me.  The hours that I play, I rarely have more than 2 or 3 other players on and even while mutually communicating our positions, often times I can't find my opponent.  6k icon range does wonders to improve my in flight pleasure in a game that I truly do enjoy.
 

[Damionte]

I'm sorry I don't understand this at all.  So if we setup an Eastern Front map, we should throw in a P51d, Spitfire, P38, <fill in blank>, etc..  To keep whatever squad that happens to choose those rides as their main happy??

I am sorry, but I am completely against this.  The AvA should be first and foremost the best representation of a "historic" arena we can muster.  The MA offers all the rides.  Not to make any attempt to drive you away, but we have to have something to seperate us from the MA.  If not why bother??

I have made the best effort to give a well balanced planeset and honestly feel I've done a good job.  The match-ups are balanced, fun and relatively historic.  I really don't take that much stock in the fact that the Axis guys have this great advantage by always flying the 109 or 190.  Yes I am sure there is some factor to it, but I believe that a lot of them are just good at this game and would excel in any plane, including the allied one.  With the current setup containing the Spitfire VII, the P51b, and the P38j if you are an Allied pilot and you can't find one of them to your liking I really think you should do a bit more troubleshooting.

I will never have a setup that breaks from a theater planeset to cater to a squad's favorite ride.  It is the beauty of the AvA--  Learn to fly them all  <S>

I disagree with a few of these points. The rolling plane set is the main thing I was against before we moved into the campaign series. Though it's an improvement over the oint buy system we had in BOA & the previous one who's name I've forgotten. It still has flaw that pushes more people away from the AvA arena than any other.

They don't get to fly what they want to fly. In the end that's what people want. We've gone through two 3 week scenarios and the talk for the next two have the battle staying in europe. What about the Navy gyus or the Jap fliers. What did we expect them to do for nearly two months?

Not everyone wants to fly every plane. They're not interested in flying everything. They simply want to fly what they want to fly. This is why people keep going back to the MA. More options means more people. More people means more chances for a fight you don't have to go out of your way to find.

I know for sure that I am not. I like the planes I like. I'd rather not play than have no other choice but to fly the planes I don't like to fly. Obviously many people feel that way. We've been on limited plane sets for a long time now. Since about the beginning of summer and on, with the exception of those few scattered weeks of downtime between the scenarios.

I honestly feel we should leave the scenario flying to the SEA.

[Oldman731]

I disagree with a few of these points. The rolling plane set is the main thing I was against before we moved into the campaign series. Though it's an improvement over the oint buy system we had in BOA & the previous one who's name I've forgotten. It still has flaw that pushes more people away from the AvA arena than any other.

They don't get to fly what they want to fly. In the end that's what people want. We've gone through two 3 week scenarios and the talk for the next two have the battle staying in europe. What about the Navy gyus or the Jap fliers. What did we expect them to do for nearly two months?

Not everyone wants to fly every plane. They're not interested in flying everything. They simply want to fly what they want to fly. This is why people keep going back to the MA. More options means more people. More people means more chances for a fight you don't have to go out of your way to find.

I know for sure that I am not. I like the planes I like. I'd rather not play than have no other choice but to fly the planes I don't like to fly. Obviously many people feel that way. We've been on limited plane sets for a long time now. Since about the beginning of summer and on, with the exception of those few scattered weeks of downtime between the scenarios.

I honestly feel we should leave the scenario flying to the SEA.

This is probably one of the better explanations of why the AvA will never attract a huge number of people.  You can't fly your favorite plane all the time.

I have to draw my personal line here (no complaints about Drack, I respect him a lot):

If you want to fly your favorite plane then you don't really belong in a historic arena.  Stick to the MAs.  Historic arenas (in whatever sim you're talking about) necessarily restrict your choice.  They put you where your real life counterparts of 60+ years ago were.  If you don't like seeing what it was like flying Spitfires against Messerschmitts, or Wildcats against Zekes, or Thunderbolts against Focke Wulfs, then you don't belong here at all.  Go to where your favorite plane is, and fly it against the very same type of plane.  Have a ball.  Pretend it has something to do with the Second World War.  But don't diss the one and only historic 24-hour arena because your aeroplane selection isn't as broad as it is in the kiddie arenas.

I mean no disrespect to Drack here; his comment is a perfect summary of the fundamental problem with this AvA arena, with ALL AvA arenas.  You don't get your pet plane.  Get over it and enjoy the new experience.  It's a lot of fun, and you really do broaden your horizons.

- oldman

[Anaxogoras]

Dude, really, you guys need to stop the BS about SA.  What SA can I have when I am already working against 2 or 3 other guys?  It only helps the cherry pickers.  Combine it with inaccurate dar and they are in heaven.

Yes, being engaged with 2-3 bandits means a severe degradation of SA.

[Shane]

Oldman's becoming cranky in his dotage.

 

[Anaxogoras]

This is probably one of the better explanations of why the AvA will never attract a huge number of people.  You can't fly your favorite plane all the time.

I have to draw my personal line here (no complaints about Drack, I respect him a lot):

If you want to fly your favorite plane then you don't really belong in a historic arena.  Stick to the MAs.  Historic arenas (in whatever sim you're talking about) necessarily restrict your choice.  They put you where your real life counterparts of 60+ years ago were.  If you don't like seeing what it was like flying Spitfires against Messerschmitts, or Wildcats against Zekes, or Thunderbolts against Focke Wulfs, then you don't belong here at all.  Go to where your favorite plane is, and fly it against the very same type of plane.  Have a ball.  Pretend it has something to do with the Second World War.  But don't diss the one and only historic 24-hour arena because your aeroplane selection isn't as broad as it is in the kiddie arenas.

I mean no disrespect to Drack here; his comment is a perfect summary of the fundamental problem with this AvA arena, with ALL AvA arenas.  You don't get your pet plane.  Get over it and enjoy the new experience.  It's a lot of fun, and you really do broaden your horizons.

- oldman

I agree, and I'm not trying to sound snotty when I say that the AvA arena is better off without those types that want to have a N1K, Spit16 or P-51D all of the time.

[Damionte]

Yeah but we've goen the other way around. We've been in an early war and mid war frame for a looooooong time.

We haven't seen the jap plane set during bugs war yet. None of it. Nor the Naval plane sets (other than the F4F and Seafire, & SBD.
Both sets were completely missing from Battle Of aces as well. We havn't had a JABO version of the P47 since before BOA as well. Leaving those fans out since before summer started.

Bugs war has yet to progress beyond an early/mid war plane set.

This is the main reason I have been asking for a week of down time between the scenarios. It not only lets us recharge the batteries so to speak and just fly casually, it gives everyone a chance to kick back and fly what they like while staying in the basic mindset of axis vs allies. While at the same time allowing them full freedom to switch sides to fly what they like and balance sides freely without pressure.

These other plane sets need their share of play time. They have not been getting their fair share of time these past few months. People haven't asked to fly them exclusively 100% of the time. No one is screaming for elite planes all day every day. We haven't allowed them any time at all though which is just as damning.

We're not mixing it up enough. Just recycling more restricted versions of the EW arena.

Next scenario needs to start either in Normandy or the Pacific. Give other players a few weeks of play time they can have fun in.

[Chilli]

I see a lot of good points of view here.    Maybe a break is needed.  I am certain that the staff has been working very hard to present some fresh ideas.   I would like it very much if we could discuss some sort of calendar or schedule with the AvA development group.  I think that will help us to both keep regular players interested and also give us time to promote upcoming events that may attract new players.

[lutrel]

I would not object to map rotations between PTO maps and Europe/Med maps, to keep the jap fliers happy too; but I like the rolling plane sets as it is a challenge to not have the best of the best to fly all the time.

[Damionte]

I agree, as logn as we do get to roll in the best of the best sets as well. And failing that get the off week with no war in between the scenarios where we just open up the arena on a random small map and just open up all the axis planes on one side and all the allies on the other.