Author Topic: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)  (Read 3833 times)

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2008, 12:04:45 PM »
I say Hell YES!!! ....but we will never see it cause all the players of this game want is USA/GB/German planes ....



Helm ...out

I would hazard that the Japanese plane set is not that bad off. With the exception of the Betty being left out almost every airplane that made an impact on the war is included, at least those that would be competitive in the game. You can say you like the Judy all you want but I'm not aware of one successful attack by it. Fact is we shot them to bits far faster then they could make them.

I tale issue with the lack of a Russian level bomber. In my opinion, if actual wartime impact was used as a criteria, the Betty should come before the Judy, and the TU-2, B-29, and HE-111 before it also. And throw in Iron Annie as well.

Can anyone name a successful use of the Judy? Course by the time it was in production you'd almost feel sorry for the IJN going up against the juggernaut the USN was rapidly becoming.
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Offline Helm

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 12:59:51 PM »
Helm,

Quite a few do want Japanese, Russian and Italian planes too.  Just not enough to sway any votes.  And that is why a player vote for each addition would be dumb, something HTC well knows.

Well said in the last vote ..."any Japanese" plane got 6% of the vote..... thats weak


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Offline Bronk

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2008, 01:08:00 PM »
Well said in the last vote ..."any Japanese" plane got 6% of the vote..... thats weak


Helm ...out
Yes giving the customers what they want is weak. :rolleyes:
Please look at this from a business standpoint.
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Offline mike254

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2008, 01:31:00 PM »
Yes!  :aok
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Offline Karnak

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2008, 02:25:08 PM »
Rich4yo,

If "impact on the war" is the only criteria then we should pretty much not have any Axis aircraft, as the Axis lost and therefor, when you get right down to it, Axis aircraft had no impact on the war.  Certainly no late war Axis aircraft had any impact on the war and due to the lack of competition from late war Axis aircraft you might even say late war Allied aircraft had no impact on the war.

That is a stupid criteria.

As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin.  She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.

I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.
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Offline glock89

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2008, 02:30:27 PM »
 :aok
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Offline Helm

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2008, 05:40:34 PM »
Yes giving the customers what they want is weak. :rolleyes:
Please look at this from a business standpoint.

It's weak that there is no interest by the player base in Japanese aviation...thats whats weak....do I have to draw you a picture?? :rolleyes:

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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2008, 08:42:33 PM »
Far too bias on this anti anything american Bs, tired of reading it day in and day out helm.
Anything new cant be bad, no matter what it is, or who makes it or how much it was used or even how sucessfull it was.



If it has wings, engines and at least one gun, it should be added.  :rock
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Offline Sikboy

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2008, 02:41:09 PM »


As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin.  She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.

I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.

I thought the Princeton was done in by a Judy as well.

More to the point though, if you've ever played a mid or late war Pacific event, you would most likely see the need for the Judy.

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Offline trigger2

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2008, 02:44:26 PM »
Far too bias on this anti anything american Bs, tired of reading it day in and day out helm.
Anything new cant be bad, no matter what it is, or who makes it or how much it was used or even how sucessfull it was.



If it has wings, engines and at least one gun, it should be added.  :rock


I agree...
Except in the case of the b29
And just so long as we also get the HO-229 Flying Wing  :D
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Offline killrDan

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2008, 10:48:26 PM »
i say yes all the way! another jap plane to fall in love with  :aok
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Offline humble

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 08:25:57 AM »
Actually the B7A "Grace" would make more sense in AH (not sure if it could carry bomb(s) or not). It was a bit faster and had 2 x 20mm vs the 7.7mm mg's in the Judy.

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Offline Wmaker

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 09:07:41 AM »
Actually the B7A "Grace" would make more sense in AH (not sure if it could carry bomb(s) or not). It was a bit faster and had 2 x 20mm vs the 7.7mm mg's in the Judy.

You are suggesting a plane in place of a dive bomber of which you are not sure if it carried bombs or not? :confused:

Grace was a torpedo bomber first, it is said that it could carry the same amount of bombs what the torpedo weights (800kg). AFAIK the bombbay had only two racks for bombs so I think that would limit its bombload even further to 2x250kg. With only little over a hundred made I think it's clear that Judy is the dive bomber and Jill is the torpedo bomber which should be added to the Japanese planeset well before Grace.

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Offline Krusty

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 09:34:38 AM »
B7A also arrived too late to see much service/action. It's also another late war 1944/45 plane, which we don't need so much for the Japanese right now.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: D4Y1 Suisei (Judy)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 10:02:06 AM »
Rich4yo,

If "impact on the war" is the only criteria then we should pretty much not have any Axis aircraft, as the Axis lost and therefor, when you get right down to it, Axis aircraft had no impact on the war.  Certainly no late war Axis aircraft had any impact on the war and due to the lack of competition from late war Axis aircraft you might even say late war Allied aircraft had no impact on the war.

That is a stupid criteria.

As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin.  She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.

I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.

No its not "stupid criteria". Because impact doesn't necessarily mean "successful impact", what it means is "presence" "availability" "inclusion"...ect When I said "as a criteria" I meant as one of several criteria, even tho I also mean "impact" as being the most important "criteria". You are also right in that all the powers in the war need aircraft in the game. That to is a criteria, and one lovers of the Japanese plane set can hardly complain about.

There are even more accounts that attack on the Franklin was made by a D3A Val then a Judy, "and we already have the D3A". And while a devastating attack the CV survived and a once great navy, and naval air arm, was long dead anyways. Had the Franklin not been 50 miles off the Japanese coast she would never had been in danger and to give a Judy credit for it is simply surmise.

And after The Marianas, where IJN aviation died, and where the Judy was slaughtered wholesale, it became just another medium range land based dive bomber outclassed by the latest USN fighters. Had the large fast IJN CVs survived long enough maybe it would have had some impact but the fact is they didn't and "it" didn't.

I think the Betty deserves inclusion first. But even that would probably end up a hangar queen. The simple fact is that the Japanese aviation industrial base just couldn't keep up with the Industrial juggernauts of America, England, Germany, and Russia. Theres just no way around that fact. And since 95% of the action is in the MAs you have to use "survivability" and "usability" as a criteria too. Whats the use of going to all that trouble to model a Queen?

Modeled correctly the Judy would be nothing more then a ronson lighter Kamikaze plane that any Hellcat could easily slaughter, and, outclass as a dive bomber. This is all just my opinion and you have as much right to yours as I have to mine. <S>
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