Author Topic: Collisions. It's been a long time...  (Read 1091 times)

Offline Boxboy

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 03:31:50 PM »
Combined Lag



sounds good, now what machine calulates the "combined lag" the server?? or is it each individual computer?
and if so how does my computer "know" what the other guys lag is?? If it is the server then some of the collision model is server side correct?
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 03:44:04 PM »
sounds good, now what machine calulates the "combined lag" the server?? or is it each individual computer?
and if so how does my computer "know" what the other guys lag is?? If it is the server then some of the collision model is server side correct?

Server has no say in collisions at all.

And total lag isn't computed in any way. It's just the simple fact that signals have to travel from your computer to the other player ones (via server) and of course from him to you. Both travel times combined are "total lag"

And this signal trave time is responsible for both of you having different "realities" on your screens all the time.
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 03:53:07 PM »
sounds good, now what machine calulates the "combined lag" the server?? or is it each individual computer?
and if so how does my computer "know" what the other guys lag is?? If it is the server then some of the collision model is server side correct?

Lets say somebody's is closing on your six. Other guy is flying at 400mph and you at 200mph. He closes down down to 20yds of your six. His machine sends position to the server. Lets say that takes 100ms. Server sends that data to you. Lets say that takes 100ms too.

When you receive position of him being 20yds of your six flying at 400mph, 200ms have passed meanwhile and he's actually 20yds closer then you'd see him ie colliding with you unless he'd avoid you.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 03:54:43 PM by 2bighorn »

Offline Boxboy

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 03:58:19 PM »
Server has no say in collisions at all.

And total lag isn't computed in any way. It's just the simple fact that signals have to travel from your computer to the other player ones (via server) and of course from him to you. Both travel times combined are "total lag"

And this signal trave time is responsible for both of you having different "realities" on your screens all the time.

Well you seem to be saying two different things, as I see it the only things in common are the SERVER both computers are connected to it (even tho the the game is on each frontend) so because of this "difference" in times out and back each player gets a different reality it seems to me if I see a collison on "my" frontend I should see his plane plummet on "my" frontend.  The truth is there is NO good way to do collisions due the lag time involved with our current technology, which is why I say they should be turned off (but I can live with what we have since I in no way believe they will be turned off).
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Offline hitech

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2008, 03:59:05 PM »
is this possible, I mean are our connections sooo bad that we constantly see other aircraft 100 plus feet behind/ahead of where they "really" are??? and if so what determines' where they "really" are since it is my understanding that it is all on OUR frontends??

100 MPH = 146 FPS, You do the math of 100 MS pings and 300 MPH.


Offline Boxboy

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2008, 04:02:20 PM »
Lets say somebody's is closing on your six. Other guy is flying at 400mph and you at 200mph. He closes down down to 20yds of your six. His machine sends position to the server. Lets say that takes 100ms. Server sends that data to you. Lets say that takes 100ms too.

When you receive position of him being 20yds of your six flying at 400mph, 200ms have passed meanwhile and he's actually 20yds closer then you'd see him ie colliding with you unless he'd avoid you.




Thanks, as I stated above it all comes down to the common denominator the time to the SERVER and back on each machine.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 04:06:08 PM »
Well you seem to be saying two different things, as I see it the only things in common are the SERVER both computers are connected to it (even tho the the game is on each frontend) so because of this "difference" in times out and back each player gets a different reality it seems to me if I see a collison on "my" frontend I should see his plane plummet on "my" frontend.  The truth is there is NO good way to do collisions due the lag time involved with our current technology, which is why I say they should be turned off (but I can live with what we have since I in no way believe they will be turned off).

Well, the current collision model is indeed a compromise, but the best one possible.

Turning collisions off entirely would have ugly side effects. For example there would be no need to set up any buff attacks, as you could just fly through them guns blazing from any angle without any risk.
The way it is now, every player is basically responsoble for what is happening on his side, which is the most fair solution to the problem.

Sometimes you simply have no luck, but (as mentioned before in this thread): If a player is getting killed by collisions constantly, he should review his way of flying. ;)

Thanks, as I stated above it all comes down to the common denominator the time to the SERVER and back on each machine.

Yes...but added together. My position in the game is computed on my computer, then goes to the server (my "lag") which relays it to your computer (your "lag") where it is displayed on your screen with a delay resulting from both legs of the complete way the signals had to travel.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 04:09:25 PM by Lusche »
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Offline Boxboy

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008, 04:13:00 PM »
100 MPH = 146 FPS, You do the math of 100 MS pings and 300 MPH.



??? so its like a movie the object "moves" 146 frames in a second at the speed of 100 MPH.

so 146,000 frames x 100 x 300 mph gets me what? the number of frames the object has moved?

we know the time it took was 100ms for the "ping" and his might be more or less depending on his ping

but I am not sure what your getting at other than the answer to my first post is yes and here is why.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 04:13:42 PM »
??? so its like a movie the object "moves" 146 frames in a second at the speed of 100 MPH.

so 146,000 frames x 100 x 300 mph gets me what? the number of frames the object has moved?

we know the time it took was 100ms for the "ping" and his might be more or less depending on his ping

but I am not sure what your getting at other than the answer to my first post is yes and here is why.

In this case fps=feet per second, not frames ;)
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Offline 2bighorn

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008, 04:37:59 PM »
??? so its like a movie the object "moves" 146 frames in a second at the speed of 100 MPH.

so 146,000 frames x 100 x 300 mph gets me what? the number of frames the object has moved?

we know the time it took was 100ms for the "ping" and his might be more or less depending on his ping

but I am not sure what your getting at other than the answer to my first post is yes and here is why.

As Lusche said, FPS = frames per second or at 300mph and 100ms lag makes for 44 feet difference


Offline Boxboy

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2008, 05:02:32 PM »
In this case fps=feet per second, not frames ;)

  :lol oops I got hung up in computer land.  Ok so now 146,000 feet x 3 x 100 give me the feet traveled in a 100ms ping.  Sheez this exercise shows how much you buy for .50 a day  :rolleyes:
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2008, 05:10:17 PM »
Server has no say in collisions at all.

And total lag isn't computed in any way. It's just the simple fact that signals have to travel from your computer to the other player ones (via server) and of course from him to you. Both travel times combined are "total lag"

And this signal trave time is responsible for both of you having different "realities" on your screens all the time.

YAKNOW.........

it seems to me that you find yourself explaining this about every 2 weeks to a month.

 i'm glad ya keep trying, because that's why i think i understand how they work a lil better now than i used to. but it is kind of ridiculous that it has to keep comming up. it also seems that it's the people that think ALL aircraft in a collision should go down, when the fact is that they don't. and when the fact may be that it happens on their screen, so it's only fair if i suffer too. seems that ho'ers get em alot. seems us turnfighters get em once in awhile. i came sooooo close to hitting another hellkitty last night, that had he let loose a vitual fart, my vitural pilot would've virtually smelled it. :rofl
 shortly after that, i did have a ZEKE of all things try to ho my spit9, and like i said in an earlier post, i wasn't in a mood to dodge, so i returned the favor. last second, i stomped the rudder, and pushed the stick foward, watched him go over my head, and got the white message saying "xxx has collided with you". got the same thing from the hurri right after he went in.

 fact is, if you don't try to ho, don't get so damd close that you can count the rivits, and fight a bit smarter, collisions won't happen.

 but now a final question? most that are complaining about the collisions are the same ones that say they don't care about score. the only thing a collision does is end the fight, and hurt your score. so why worry? click the button, and have another airplane, compliments of HTC.

<<S>>
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2008, 05:11:33 PM »
Well, the current collision model is indeed a compromise, but the best one possible.

Turning collisions off entirely would have ugly side effects. For example there would be no need to set up any buff attacks, as you could just fly through them guns blazing from any angle without any risk.






wasn't AW3 like that?
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Offline TheMan

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Re: Collisions. It's been a long time...
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2008, 05:22:02 PM »
ding ding ding ding......you win a (Image removed from quote.) :aok
Aahhahahahhaha good one SR.