Gun Model

[ohganet]

Wow! my bullet can hit the plane in the distance more than 1000m.
I think effective shooting range should be in less than 300yrd.

Sabrou Sakai, famous Zeke (mostly type 21) pilot said that he always pull the trigger laess than 100yrd when he shoot the enemy fighters.

If I mention the War Birds, Gun model of Ver.2.6 is most realistic.

[TT]

 God the nightmare begains again.

[Granger]

Yea, you can hit em at range..but the bullets dont do much.
Was gettin riddled at bout 900 yards in my 51, got shot to pieces, or so I thought.
After being shot at least 30 times, I pulled up damage...not a thing was hurt  
It seems the bullets lose their punch at range, expecially 50 cals. The 51 on me prolly was cussin up a storm cuz he got me real good..but no damage resulted from his slowing projectiles at 900 yards.
Get in close and its another story altogether..heh


Granger

[Jinx]

If this is done right, and I think it is or will be, a .50cal slug will keep its energy very well and still have about the same punch at 1000 yards as it does at 500. The difference is the effects of dispersion and convergence, at a 1000 yards a few single bullets might still hit and make some ugly scratches (or hit you in the head and ruin your day). But it takes a concentrated burst to make any real damage to the airframe, and that will only happen at short range and around convergence.

  -Jinx

[Jekyll]

Well, I don't know whether you're right there Granger.  Was flying tonight and being chased by a 109 who was about 800 yds back, and absolutely PASTED my P51 with his cannon.  I was dodging and weaving, barrel rolling and jinking and yet he still managed to nail me with ease from 800 yds.

IMHO the effective gun ranges should be cut to no more than 35% of their current values.  As you are aware, one of the biggest complaints about pre 2.6 Warbirds was the laser gunnery, but the current AH gun model is like laser gunnery with heat-seeking bullets!

I know its only an early beta release, but I really hope that the gun model will be addressed in the not-too-distant future

[Granger]

Key word here being cannons.try doin that in a 51 with 50 cals..you can pepper em all day.

Least I have..the hit "bubble" does seem a bit large though, this might be due to tracers only firing every 3 or 4 bullets though. you are watching your tracers and they might not be hitting, but the lead in between em is if your spraying.

Granger

[Downtown]

I have Knocked down at least three planes at greater than D600 with the .50cals.

It doesn't seem right to me.

There are supposedly accounts of U.S. Pilots that were great convergence shooters at distance, but I haven't read any first person accounts of this.

Most pilots that I have read about got close 150 to 50 yards.

In my little story "Going Downtown" there was a P-51 behind me,  He was pinging me too.  I don't know how far back he was, and I didn't check damage.

Saburo Sakai said he would use his guns at distance some times, but he knew they had almost no affect. He usually did long range shots only to try and get a persuer off the 6 of one of his squadies, or to try and get someone to turn and fight.  He almost exclusively used cannon, and got in tight, and fed it in through the floor.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

[Kats]

Granger, I got nailed by a P51 (50 cals)from slightly under 800 yards while I was in a 109. One burst blew me up.

[Granger]

I guess I need to say that it doesnt happen all the time, but has happened to me on a few occassions. Even a bb gun could get a lucky shot in I guess. The thing is, at 800 yards its much more survivable than at 200 yards. At 200 yards a good burst and your dead, at 800 yards you will more than likely take damage in a few areas before you auger in.

Granger

[fats]

I got nailed by a P51 (50 cals)from slightly under 800 yards
---

It's a new sim but I would guess the effects of netlag are the same as before. That is objects are closer than they appear in rear view. Having said that I agree that gunnery seems quite easy, flew my first ever sortie the day before yesterday in P-51 and got 7 kills I think. That is quite strange considering that I had not fired a burst before with the .50s.


//fats

[Werewolf]

Hi there,

the postings seem to be correct, but do not forget that the Mk 108 especially has been designed for bomber interception. Its' effective range should be higher than the effective range of the 0.50 cal.

[janneh]

If I recall it right,in Fighter Combat, there
was this quote where USAAF pilot told that
they set their convergence typically to 800 yards.
So they did shoot at that distance ?

[Downtown]

Almost all the LW Cannon that shot range for bomber interdiction were mortars.

These shells Rainbowed and exploded amongst the Formations, they weren't accurate weapons, they were area of affect weapons.

The LW 20mm and 40mm should have significant drop after about 400 yards.

The Hispanno was not much better.

I have HEARD of U.S. Pilots pinging away at and getting hits at 1800 yards.

Here is what you wanna think about.

Will my target be where my bullets are gonna be after traveling 1800 yards.

Most of the U.S. Pilots I have read about said they set convergence of about 400 yards, and may start firing at about 600 yards.

I assume that these tactics were used on BnZ bounces.  Your diving in High E, you got your target lined up.

That 600 to 400 yards gives you an extra second of burst time.

by 150 yards your gonna have to break of so you were firing for about 450 yards, maybe for 3 seconds, which is an awful long burst.

If you hit something for 3 seconds, with 6 fifties, I expect you should get the kill.

800 yard is probably good for H0s also, which counter affects the induced drag cause your taget is now adding kinetic energy to your rounds.

I wouldn't shoot at a plane moving away from me, that is 800 yards away, I don't think we shoud get Kills under those circumstances.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

[Curly]

Oddly my P51 guns have been set for a convergance of 250 yards and the folks I've nailed were people at 500-600+.

 --Curly

[Rednek]

The weapons/damage modeling may also need to be double checked.  I like the realism of a good burst destroying a plane.  It shouldn't take half your ammo load to bring down a fighter.  But I've barely nicked someone's tail with the .50s in the 51 and their wing disappeared.  I've always avoided jumping into bullet modeling discussions; you just can't please everyone.  But the damage should at least go where hit occurs.