Author Topic: Fed decides to Bail out AIG  (Read 1238 times)

Offline Lye-El

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2008, 11:22:53 AM »
I would rather the government fund the replacement of my roof instead of bailing out Wall Street. Funny how they keep preaching about the free market economy until the free market impacts Wall Street. Then they want Wall Street welfare at government expense. I don't want my tax dollars going to Wall Street. They ought to sink all that money into health care.


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline Tuomio

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2008, 11:43:19 AM »
"Just" giving out quick loans yeah. I wonder why they didn't just give it to the other banks who were allowed to sink. I wonder where all the 10-years worth of spectacular  growth ($$$) went.

In modern capitalism wins are privatized and losses are socialized.

Offline Shamus

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2008, 11:48:20 AM »
OK, you guys have convinced me, I have always been against government bail outs of the private sector, but if you cant beat em join em.

When they were talking about shooting the auto companies 50 billion in loans I sent my rep an email expressing my displeasure with the idea.

I just sent him one recanting that and stating my support of the program, I guess its time to be pragmatic, redirecting tax money from the rest of the country to Michigan will be good for the local economy and lord knows we need it.

shamus  
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Offline myelo

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2008, 12:05:13 PM »
AIG made stupid decisions in the credit-default swap business that ultimately put them in a cash crunch. AIG is a private corporation that's not directly regulated by the federal government. So the Treasury has no responsibility to protect them from the consequences of their stupid decisions.

Although it's a loan, in exchange the Fed is getting warrants (options to buy stock) so we are in effect buying AIG -- something nobody in the private sector wants to do.

I addition to the principle of the thing and the moral-hazard consequences of this precedent the biggest risk is this: if the Treasury continues to expand it's debt commitment like this, at some point the world will lose faith in Treasury debt. At that point, the Treasury would face the same situation as AIG -- and who's gonna bail out the US Treasury?

That would be  real catastrophe.

myelo
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2008, 12:34:08 PM »
AIG made stupid decisions in the credit-default swap business that ultimately put them in a cash crunch. AIG is a private corporation that's not directly regulated by the federal government. So the Treasury has no responsibility to protect them from the consequences of their stupid decisions.

Although it's a loan, in exchange the Fed is getting warrants (options to buy stock) so we are in effect buying AIG -- something nobody in the private sector wants to do.

I addition to the principle of the thing and the moral-hazard consequences of this precedent the biggest risk is this: if the Treasury continues to expand it's debt commitment like this, at some point the world will lose faith in Treasury debt. At that point, the Treasury would face the same situation as AIG -- and who's gonna bail out the US Treasury?

That would be  real catastrophe.

I'm no expert. Hell, as far as wall street is concerned, I'm sub-human. (I have no debt load) As a guy well versed in kitchen table economics and as a small business owner that is watching his customers begin running around in circles banging into each other and wailing like lost puppies.. instead of buying my widgets.. I'm scared.

This makes no sense... if my business was doing the tidy bowl twirl, nobody would step up with anybody's money to save my arse. So Unca Sam steps in, bails them with a loan. "well good, that'll restore confidence, save the economy' the experts say.

So why are the markets still tanking? Why are the customers still wailing?

Why am I sitting here typing this instead of heading for the retreat in the hills?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline myelo

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2008, 12:52:23 PM »
So why are the markets still tanking? Why are the customers still wailing?

Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.

The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.
myelo
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2008, 12:56:21 PM »
Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.

The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.


Ok, hence the 'bloodletting'... but aren't we in bigtime deficit spending mode already? What happens if the patient runs outta blood before the decline bottoms? Isn't that the more likely scenario?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline myelo

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2008, 01:19:23 PM »
Stiffen up Laddie, now's not the time for panic.
myelo
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2008, 01:21:31 PM »
ok. You'll let me know when I should head fer the redoubt?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline kamilyun

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2008, 01:43:25 PM »
Should I start buying gold and silver nuggets so I can get food in 20 years?

Offline kamilyun

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2008, 01:45:59 PM »
I'm suffering some credit problems myself.  Since I have to pay my yard guy and he sends $$ back to his family in Colombia, my credit crunch has a potential global impact.  Will someone bail me out?


Offline Bodhi

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2008, 01:58:07 PM »
Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.

The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.

I think that the reality of the Fed popping up AIG has more to do with allowing people to have faith in all that AIG has it's hands in.  That is everything from Insurance to retirements...  If they fold, a lot of people were going to start running around in circles and then instead of giving a loan with a possibility of return, they instead give the money in social programs to people that no longer have any retirement....

Which is the lesser of the two evils.

Also, Myelo, I very much agree with you in that at our current rate of expansion of treasury debt commitment, when will the world lose faith over it?
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Hajo

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2008, 04:35:17 PM »
Isn't it grand what Greed and basic stupidity can accomplish?
- The Flying Circus -

Offline Hangtime

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2008, 04:48:53 PM »
Yup. Grand indeed.

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hajo

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Re: Fed decides to Bail out AIG
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2008, 05:34:15 PM »
Hangtime...they have no one to blame but themselves.  Unfortunately lots will suffer the consequences of their greed.
- The Flying Circus -