October Surprise Predictions

[bongaroo]

I'm sorry.  You are just another who didn't pay attention in science class when they went over the definitions of hypothsis and theory.  Go back to your grade school teacher and ask them to sit you down and talk about it.  You'll be better equipped to handle these discussions.

Evolution happens.  We know it has, we know it does, and we know it will.  The driving mechanisms behind it are still in discussion though.  Join the 21st century, we'd love to have you aboard.  <S>

[avionix]

Ok.  So I am stupid for not believing in the whole we descended from apes crap.  And because I did not follow the party line from my science teacher I am stupid as well.  I thought school was designed to teach critical thinking as well as facts.

 I believe that things evolve in some ways but not others.  Sure, a species may evolve form one type of plant food to another if they eat a species of plant life into extinction.  They may change certain habits from on generation to the next.  Survival of the fittest. 

  But, to suggest that birds are descendant of dinosaurs and that everything evolved from single celled organisms out of the primordial ooze after the big bang cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  Can you start with yourself and through your descendants grow a third arm or leg because it woul help playing soccer?  Just try it.  If you can show me that, I will believe.  But for now, I will believe it to be a load of crap.

Has anyone come forward with the missing links for all of the theories that are out there?  The biggest thing, is was anyone there to see this stuff happen?  Do you have any documented proof?  Do you have any pictures that it happened as the teachers say it did?   

[Nwbie]

Ok.  So I am stupid for not believing in the whole we descended from apes crap.  And because I did not follow the party line from my science teacher I am stupid as well.  I thought school was designed to teach critical thinking as well as facts.

 I believe that things evolve in some ways but not others.  Sure, a species may evolve form one type of plant food to another if they eat a species of plant life into extinction.  They may change certain habits from on generation to the next.  Survival of the fittest. 

  But, to suggest that birds are descendant of dinosaurs and that everything evolved from single celled organisms out of the primordial ooze after the big bang cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  Can you start with yourself and through your descendants grow a third arm or leg because it woul help playing soccer?  Just try it.  If you can show me that, I will believe.  But for now, I will believe it to be a load of crap.

Has anyone come forward with the missing links for all of the theories that are out there?  The biggest thing, is was anyone there to see this stuff happen?  Do you have any documented proof?  Do you have any pictures that it happened as the teachers say it did?   

Show me the pictures of God making Eve out of the rib of Adam first
Do you have any documented proof?
Don't tell me the Bilble and or the Torah... those were written centuries after "Adam"

[indy007]

  But, to suggest that birds are descendant of dinosaurs and that everything evolved from single celled organisms out of the primordial ooze after the big bang cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  Can you start with yourself and through your descendants grow a third arm or leg because it woul help playing soccer?  Just try it.  If you can show me that, I will believe. 

Our pinky toes are shrinking over a large span of time because they've become superfluous.  Also, not all evolution is positive. Species do evolve negative traits also. That bit was actually proved not too long ago.

But for now, I will believe it to be a load of crap

Refusing to accept an answer with credible proof over a something that cannot be proven at all is critical thinking? Or do you simply take the "I don't know!" approach? The first is not critical thinking, it's simply being stubborn. The second approach is for those that think a lack of conviction is the moral high ground. Neither have much of a leg to stand on.

[avionix]

Show me the pictures of God making Eve out of the rib of Adam first
Do you have any documented proof?
Don't tell me the Bilble and or the Torah... those were written centuries after "Adam"

So, believing in either is is a matter of faith. 

Refusing to accept an answer with credible proof

What proof?

[bongaroo]

Here.  This will get you up to speed.  Evolution is a fact and a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact

There are those that refuse to accept evolution as fact. House Bill HB1504, in the Oklahoma state legislature, provides a requirement for an "evolution disclaimer" in state-approved textbooks stating that evolution is a "controversial theory" and that "any statement about life’s origins should be considered as theory, not fact."[24]. The creationist website Answers in Genesis claims that evolution should not be classed as a "theory" in the proper scientific sense; rather, they claim that "it would be better to say that particles-to-people evolution is an unsubstantiated hypothesis or conjecture." [25]

The issue was brought before the courts In 1986, when an amicus curiae brief asking the US Supreme Court to reject a Louisiana state law requiring the teaching of creationism in the case Edwards v. Aguillard was signed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners, 17 state academies of science and 7 other scientific societies. The brief provides a detailed argument which it summarises in the following statement.[26]

The Act's unconstitutional purpose is also evident in its requirement that both "creation-science" and "evolution-science" be taught as "theory" and not as "proven scientific fact." To a scientist or a science educator, the distinction between scientific theories and scientific facts is well understood. A "fact" is a property of a natural phenomenon. A "theory" is a naturalistic explanation for a body of facts. That distinction permeates all fields of scientific endeavor. It is no more relevant to discussions of the origin of the universe and life than to any other area of research. By singling out one topic in science – "origins" – for special treatment, the legislature conveys the false message that the prevailing theory of "origins" – evolutionary theory – is less robust and reliable than all other scientific concepts. This misleadingly disparaging treatment of evolution confirms that the Act favors a particular religious belief.

Evolution occuring is a fact.  We have contained lab experiments that have observed evolutionary changes in fruit flies.  This is fact.  Explaining the causes and process is part of the theory.

Make sense?

[Donzo]

...contained lab experiments...

Key words.

[indy007]

Key words.

So, believing in either is is a matter of faith. 

What proof?

No. One is based on zero evidence and pure speculation. One is an educated guess. A guess is all it is, but I'll take something that can be proven over one that's completely untestable and basks in intentional ignorance.

The transitional fossils that creationists claim don't exist, actually do. All you have to do to see these are go to a natural history museum. Jesus won't be in the building, but you should be able to find some interesting fossils. You can see the gradual change over time from Pierolapithecus catalaunicus to Homo erectus. Same fossil lines exist for whales, horses, fish, etc, etc. I can sit here and claim that the SR-71 doesn't exist all day long. All you have to do is go to a museum and see one for yourself. Not terribly difficult.

[avionix]

And with better nutrition and medicine, people of the 21st century live longer, are taller and more muscularly built than those from even the 19th century.  People of northern european descent are fairer haired and skinned than those from the mediteranean region.  Those can be an evolutionary changes.  That is fine.  Chalk that up more to survival of the fittest.  But, prove to me that you are decended from an ape.  Prove that we all came from one common ancestor.  This seems to be the core of the evolutionary theory.  That some ameoba decided it wanted to become a human, tried, died and then millions of eons later, his ancestor is sitting at a keyboard trying to disparage someone that believes in Creation.  That is the part I don't buy.  

[MORAY37]

Why do people wrag on others that believe evolution to be false?  It is nothing more than a theory and has not been proven yet you take it as gospel!!!!!!  Please tell me why that is such a big point with you.  It is on par with aliens, bigfoot and the loch ness monster.  Some people beleive it, but there is no proof it happened with a "big bang."  Have you found the missing link yet?

By making a post like this, you showcase the fact that you truly don't understand what you are talking about.

Start, quite simply, by telling me the difference of the word "theory" when dealing in common terms versus scientific ones.

And, as far as "missing link"....we've found approximately 10 to 13 different links back to our progeny that arose in Africa.  Each show successive trait development.  I'm sorry you are too ignorant or brainwashed to realize what evolution is.  The Pope has, and has said that evolution is fact.  

[Donzo]

Have we found any links back to the thingy that climbed out of the ooze?

[bongaroo]

What ooze?  If your talking first single celled lifeforms, well, they'd be single celled and stuck floating in the ooze, not really climbing out of it.

 

[MORAY37]

And with better nutrition and medicine, people of the 21st century live longer, are taller and more muscularly built than those from even the 19th century.  People of northern european descent are fairer haired and skinned than those from the mediteranean region.  Those can be an evolutionary changes.  That is fine.  Chalk that up more to survival of the fittest.  But, prove to me that you are decended from an ape.  Prove that we all came from one common ancestor.  This seems to be the core of the evolutionary theory.  That some ameoba decided it wanted to become a human, tried, died and then millions of eons later, his ancestor is sitting at a keyboard trying to disparage someone that believes in Creation.  That is the part I don't buy.  

Your "nutrition and medicine" analogy is dead off, concerning evolution.  

The amoeba?
That's just it.... it didn't decide anything. It didn't yearn to be human...it simply attempted to survive. By using HOX genes we can discern when our progenitors came about.  The first bilaterally symmetric planaria (worm) had those genes.  No other creature during the precambian explosion did. Bilateral symmetry was a huge breakthrough in organism development.  Now, every organism that is bilaterally symmetric(including you and me) has the exact same HOX genes, which control body plan development.  That's simple observable fact, and is the reason that embryonic development through different genera all look the same.  Compare the embryo of a human, a mouse, a fish and a worm..... and you will be amazed at the similarities... until gene expression begins to slowly morph the specific traits of each species. The HOX genes that decide when to read the genetic code are all located at the same point on the embryo.  This shows we all descended from common ancestry.

[avionix]

Ignorant.  Brainwashed.  Thanks MORAY37.  Just goes to show how an education and left leaning tendencies does not make you more open minded and accepting of other people's beliefs. This bs has to stop.  Maybe I did not graduate from college, have three years though, but, I accept that you believe certain things that I do not and have not resorted to calling you a cretin, stupid or other such drivel.  Why do you have to resort to slinging the same ooze that you are crawling through.  I have said this too many time on the bbs to even count now.  Deal with the fact that I do not believe as you and shut the F up if you are not going to at least be civil.

[MORAY37]

Have we found any links back to the thingy that climbed out of the ooze?

Nothing climbed "out of the ooze". Unicellular turned into multicellular.  Multicellular plans abounded in the oceans until the atmosphere built up, an allowed for the blockage of UV, which breaks down carbon based organisms at the cellular level.

That's when multicellular organisms began to crawl out of the oceans.