Palin Haters

[SkyRock]

So, I guess you think in less than half a tour on a boat, Kerry was witness to all this?  Or do you think he listened to rumors and spouted it as fact?
Do you think all the soldiers in the 10 years we were there did this? 

No, but it did happen and it happened much more than we will ever know.

What you list were very isolated and rare instances, but Kerry painted it as if it was commonplace.  To do so was an extreme disservice to the good men who served there.

There were many instances, most of which we will never know about.

I am pretty sure I am safe in saying, Kerry didn't witness any of these types of incidents. 

Kerry was there representing a group and relaying testimony.

"...I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony...."
"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command...."



Here, try googling this...Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Files.  They detail 320 alleged incidents that were substantiated by United States Army investigators — not including the 1968 My Lai Massacre.  Most of the alleged incidents happened from '67 to '72, so we're looking at 5 incidents a month, for 5 years.  I wouldn't call that "very isolated and rare instances", I'd call that way to many.

[SkyRock]

I was with the 9th Infantry, Riverine, doing S&E for the PBR's, occasionally having to go recover swifts and whalers the squids beached or lost. The guy was a grandstanding twit, violated every known engagement and support SOP and put others at risk routinely in his pursuit of glory. I spent 9 long months there cleaning up after arsehat hoots just like him.

He shoulda stopped a bullet. What he did after the war earns him as much respect from most vets as Hanoi Jane did.

I wouldn't elect him dog catcher.

So, because he was a grandstander and a twit, what he reported didn't happen?   

[Donzo]

...and it happened much more than we will ever know.
There were many instances, most of which we will never know about.

What do you base this on?  Where you there?

[Dago]

What do you base this on?  Where you there?

Because he saw it in a movie, he knows all about it.   

[Hangtime]

So, because he was a grandstander and a twit, what he reported didn't happen?   

I'd like to explain it to you in person. Please help me make the connection for you between those of us that served with honor and those that defamed, reviled and insulted our service with propaganda and lies.. The insulator of anonymity, a keyboard and a monitor is all that protects you from the impact of reality borne by the more than 2.5 million 'baby killers' still walking the streets that served in that war... and what we think of ultra melons like Kerry. And You.

[bj229r]

So, because he was a grandstander and a twit, what he reported didn't happen?   

You aren't aware that at least ONE of the people's testimony at the Winter Soldier's hearings, of atrocities which our boys allegedly committed, (which Kerry dutifully relayed) was never IN the military?

[SkyRock]

What do you base this on?  Where you there?

I base them on the fact that I was told several stories by my father, who was told about them by my uncle who died there on mothers day of 1968 outside of Hue.  
SISK HARRY DUNCAN SSGT ARMY HUNTSVILLE AL 12MAY68 S.VIETNAM 16FEB44 HOSTILE, KILLED

The fact that my uncle first hand witnessed some murders of civilians, tells me that there are other uncles, brothers, sons, that never said anything about what they saw as well.  The memories of these happenings haunted my uncle, he could never sleep the whole night without having nightmares about what he saw.  He inevitably signed back up for another tour and never came back.  
  

[SkyRock]

Please help me make the connection for you between those of us that served with honor and those that defamed, reviled and insulted our service with propaganda and lies..

Are you saying people that served and reported war crimes served dishonorably?  It is in the records that incidents happened frequently, is that propaganda? 

[Donzo]

I base them on the fact that I was told several stories by my father, who was told about them by my uncle who died there on mothers day of 1968 outside of Hue.  
SISK HARRY DUNCAN SSGT ARMY HUNTSVILLE AL 12MAY68 S.VIETNAM 16FEB44 HOSTILE, KILLED

The fact that my uncle first hand witnessed some murders of civilians, tells me that there are other uncles, brothers, sons, that never said anything about what they saw as well.  The memories of these happenings haunted my uncle, he could never sleep the whole night without having nightmares about what he saw.  He inevitably signed back up for another tour and never came back.  
  

I fail to see your logic...your uncle told, therefore there must be so many others that did not tell?

[SkyRock]

You aren't aware that at least ONE of the people's testimony at the Winter Soldier's hearings, of atrocities which our boys allegedly committed, (which Kerry dutifully relayed) was never IN the military?

Again, are you saying the 320 incidents that are on file never happened?  

[SkyRock]

I fail to see your logic...your uncle told, therefore there must be so many others that did not tell?

My uncle confided in my father, he never reported the incidents to his superiors.  I am sure there were others besides the 320 documented cases of war crimes by US troops that went untold. 

[bj229r]

Again, are you saying the 320 incidents that are on file never happened?  

I'm saying Kerry reported specific incidents which never happened, and he knew it. That certainly doesn't mean the stuff DIDN'T happen, but if you have to lie to make your point, you lose the argument 

[john9001]

so skyrock, how many babies, women and old men did your uncle kill?

[BnZ]

Not every American soldier was a saint?  

Some funky bad sh*t went down in a war zone?  

Some "innocents" got killed by the American soldiers? In an un-winnable operation where the little darlins' we were fighting constantly fought out of uniforms and deliberately used women and children to do much of their dirty work?  

Wow, that changes my whole take on everything.   Think I'll move to North Vietnam and live with the "forces of righteousness"

Skyrock, you want to talk about war crimes? We need to take McNamara, Johnson's corpse, and anyone else who was responsible for getting us involved Vietnam but didn't have the balls to to fight to win, and hang their corpses from the city gates.

And we need to give Truman's mortal coil the same treatment, for failure to either let MacArthur kick as much bellybutton as possible OR keep us out of the whole sorry affair entirely.

[SkyRock]

I'm saying Kerry reported specific incidents which never happened, and he knew it. That certainly doesn't mean the stuff DIDN'T happen, but if you have to lie to make your point, you lose the argument 

There never was an argument just people denying the fact that it happened.  If you believe Kerry went up there and told a story he knew to be false, then that is your right, I am thankful he did what he did.  We as a country should learn from our mistakes.