Biden: Time to be patriotic, part of the deal, time to jump in

[DYNAMITE]

 
 

[bj229r]

Your source?  Just curious.

Heres one source, though they pretty much all have similar data

    * According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
    * The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.
    * The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.
    * The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.

    * From 1984 to 2001, those in the bottom quintile saw their share of the total tax burden drop from 2.4 percent to 1.1 percent.
    * Those in the top quintile saw their share rise from 55.6 percent to 65.3 percent.
    * The top 10 percent increased their share from 39.3 percent to 50 percent; the top 5 percent's share rose from 28.2 to 38.5 percent; and those in the top 1 percent saw their share skyrocket from 14.7 percent to 22.7 percent.

    * From 1979 through 2003, the total federal tax bur­den on the highest-earning percentage of Americans -- who earn 52 percent of all income -- rose from 56 percent to 66 percent of all taxes.
    * Their share of individual income taxes jumped from 65 percent to 85 percent.
    * On the spending side, antipoverty spending has leaped from 9.1 percent of all federal spending in 1990 to a record 16.3 percent in 2004.

    * In the case of for-profit firms, shareholders demand that any surplus income in excess of expenses be distributed to them as dividends or retained as accumulated earnings.
    * Those firms react to taxes by trying to shift them to customers in the form of higher prices or to employees in the form of lower compensation.

[Engine]

I still don't understand why a flat tax would be so horrible. It always seemed like the fairest solution to me, with the added perk of trimming down the size of the IRS. I'm guessing tax revenue would drop horrendously?

I barely qualify as lower middle class (no car, no home, no real savings), so I don't have a personal interest in it.

[Gaidin]

I think the flat tax would be better.  I myself and barely above the poverty line.  I'm below it in some places, but I still pay what taxes I'm told to pay, I don't take welfare (food stamps, etc.) even though I qualify for them.  I do go to work everyday, put food on the table, keep the rent paid, and still have cigs (they will be the death of me).  I don't care about being rich, and I don't think those that have money should be paying all of the taxes for this county.

Flat tax would be equal tax.  You pay (%) on what you spend.  If I pay 80k for a home.  I pay taxes on 80k.  If someone who has alot more money than me pays 200k for a home, he pays taxes on 200k.  Even tax rate.  His tax is more than mine, but what he spent is more.  I don't have all of the answers, but I think this would work.

OUTLAW LOBBIEST!!!

[avionix]

A flat tax would work.  By going to a flat tax, we could get rid of the capital gains tax, death tax, marriage penalty and all of the loopholes associated with those.

I pulled this off of a tax website.

The Russian Federation is a claimed case in point; the real revenues from its Personal Income Tax rose by 25.2% in the first year after the Federation introduced a flat tax, followed by a 24.6% increase in the second year, and a 15.2% increase in the third year.

[Donzo]

Your source?  Just curious.

Sure...here ya go: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

[Anaxogoras]

A flat tax on income is more expensive to implement than a flat sales tax, not to mention it's simply wrong to put a tax on productivity and achievement.

[BoilerDown]

The problem with a sales tax is its easier to dodge than income tax. 

Just look at the internet... a national sales tax would require that all internet purchases be taxed, right now most people buy over the internet to avoid state sales taxes, and they've been getting away with it for years now.

Another way I can think of off the top of my head... people will barter more.  When no money is changing hands, think people are going to pay the government its share?

Second problem... how can you implement a national sales tax to replace income tax without increasing the overall tax burden on the majority of the population?  If right now the income tax is "unfair" to the rich, any change to make it "fair to everyone" by definition means the not-rich are getting their taxes increased.  Since the not-rich hold the majority of the votes, anyone pushing that agenda won't get elected.

[bongaroo]

http://www.fairtax.org

The more I look at Fair Tax the more I like it.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

A flat tax on income is more expensive to implement than a flat sales tax, not to mention it's simply wrong to put a tax on productivity and achievement.

You cannot have a "flat sales tax" unless you remove what is called the "local option".

Besides, they will NEVER repeal the income tax. That is the FIRST problem, and one you will NOT solve.

The one chance we do have is a flat income tax, with minimal allowable deductions.

[lasersailor184]

You cannot have a "flat sales tax" unless you remove what is called the "local option".

Besides, they will NEVER repeal the income tax. That is the FIRST problem, and one you will NOT solve.

The one chance we do have is a flat income tax, with minimal allowable deductions.

All of this is moot until we get rid of the Politician's Credit Card.  Namely, the 16th amendment. 

They really won't care how much money they have until they realize how difficult it would be to spend.

[Bodhi]

You cannot have a "flat sales tax" unless you remove what is called the "local option".

Besides, they will NEVER repeal the income tax. That is the FIRST problem, and one you will NOT solve.

The one chance we do have is a flat income tax, with minimal allowable deductions.

The federal income tax could be removed.  It would create a lot of lost jobs for CPA's and IRS folks, but it could be done.  All we as a people need to do is force the change.

The flat sales tax is a good idea because it hits everyone. 

Hypothetically, fix a federal flat tax @ 20%.
Then allow the state and local to amount up to 10%.

That's a max tax of 30%.  Better than what most are paying now.  Now, add in all those that do not pay "income taxes" such as drug dealers, foreigners that spend money here, and all the others that find ways to dodge the tax.  Now they are forced to pay it, because when they go buy that new Lexus, or tennis racket, or bicycle, it is taxed.

Makes a lot more sense and is very easy to keep track of.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

There's no doubt the income tax COULD be removed, at least in theory.

Perhaps I should have posted it THIS way:


THEY will NEVER repeal the income tax. THEY have NEVER met a TAX THEY didn't like. And THEY rarely repeal them.

THEY= the majority of your average elected government officials, in this case CONGRESS.

[lasersailor184]

The federal income tax could be removed.  It would create a lot of lost jobs for CPA's and IRS folks, but it could be done.  All we as a people need to do is force the change.

The flat sales tax is a good idea because it hits everyone. 

Hypothetically, fix a federal flat tax @ 20%.
Then allow the state and local to amount up to 10%.

That's a max tax of 30%.  Better than what most are paying now.  Now, add in all those that do not pay "income taxes" such as drug dealers, foreigners that spend money here, and all the others that find ways to dodge the tax.  Now they are forced to pay it, because when they go buy that new Lexus, or tennis racket, or bicycle, it is taxed.

Makes a lot more sense and is very easy to keep track of.

One thing I'll do if I take over this country is to implement into the Constitution a "Not to Exceed Tax Burden."  For any given person, their entire tax burden is not to exceed 20%.  I'd probably set a flat tax for the US Federal Government at 8 or 9% for everyone.

So basically, figure out what the common rabble spend on income taxes (the states can set up income tax brackets, provided the worst one doesn't exceed 20%), then tack on any sales tax and figure out if the sales taxes will put the person over 20%.

[Yeager]

the more money you make the more money the state should take, I think.  And then give it to the poor people who arent smart enough to take care of themselves.  Or have substance abuse problems...are are gamblers and such.  And to pay for their family members in prison.