"Whining about getting jumped by multiple enemies"

[GhostBer]

Wow....What a read this has been.  I have been playing AH for about 3 months or less. I did play Air Warrior for about two years prior to its disappearance and i have learned one thing..........It is the same in AH as it was in Air Warrior. Some people are sore losers. There is no getting around it and you certainly will NEVER change them in that regard. When i get shot down (I do that a LOT!) i simply re-up in a new plane and try again. It is really that simple. It doesn't matter whether i get HO'd, jumped by 50 guys or ran into a tree because i was too stupid to look around after a dive. I am still dead and i need to get back into the action.

As for the "honor" or the "Vets" i have discovered that almost all of these folks are VERY friendly! I have NEVER been disrespected because of a question. I DID read the website first, I did download the instruction manual (My Girlfriend loved that one!) and i did fly in the training area for awhile before venturing out into the "Real World".  I try not to ask stupid questions but i am sure i have and they have all been answered with respect.

I also try to help out whenever i can. I cant offer a lot of help but when asked a question i know i answer it...Simple as that.

Now.......For the real life Vs Game comparison..........

I realize that there are two schools of thought here. you have to consider WHY you play before you can answer the RL v G question.

1. If you play to experience what the actual WWII pilots did, flew like, then yes...you want the game to mimic that in almost every regard. AH and AWIII were unique in this aspect as they accomplished this well. Flying against ACTUAL human beings is by far more enjoyable than flying against some programmers idea of how WWII pilots SHOULD have flown. It is the unpredictable nature of the game that appeals to the real lifers.

2. If you play because the game itself is challenging (It is), you want the highest score possible or you want to yuk it up with your friends WHILE playing a game than your also in the right place.

Hitech has done a great job at accommodating both of these types of players. I personally like a little of both aspects. I LOVE WWII Aviation, I LOVE history and I LOVE playing computer games. AH satisfies all of these requirements for me and i love them for it. I love the fact that i can jump into a plane with my squaddies and do what we were BORN to do and at the same time do not have to worry about whether our wills are filled out or whether our wives/girlfriends will become widows.

Sportsmanship and honor are things that are earned. If you give it you will get it...... It really is as simple as that. We ALL pay to be here...Why whine about what someone else is doing?  If they CHOSE to fly into a situation where they are going to get shot down then let them. I dint see how this detracts from YOUR enjoyment of the game. If it is about the fact that you get jumped by 10, 20, 30 flyer's than learn from your mistake and try really hard NOT to get into that situation. Just like the old joke........"Hey doc it hurts when i move my arm" ....."Dint move your arm"

I want to close this by saying that in no way did i mean any disrespect to ANY of the posters on this thread. I can actual see both sides of this argument and i agree with some of it from both sides. I just think that what others do in the game should in no way detract from your enjoyment of the game. If they do something to you that you do not like, Find another fight somewhere else. Hitech has given us choices that we should utilize. Trying to change how someone else plays in the game is an act of futility and will only end in you becoming frustrated and not enjoying a game that you pay to play.

Fair skies and tailwinds to all

"Ghostber"

[GhostBer]

One of the aspects of the game that has been lost is "efficiency."  There's nothing to win anymore.  A game with no winning is like, like, well, I don't know what it is like.  Since that's the case, there's really no call for efficient use of resources.

Base captures still happen of course.  But there's no sustained drive by any side to win the war.  Not their fault either.  The dynamics, that is the rules, may not prohibit it, but they sure work against it.

The only real weakness in HTC's product is it does not provide the essential outcome that all games provide, winners and losers.  Might it always be profitable as a business despite that.  Yes.

MMORPG's have no clear winners or losers and yet they are THE most popular games on the market today. World of Warcraft doesnt have a clear winner or loser...People play the game for the experiance of the game itself. Not for winning or losing.  so while i feel your point was made eloquently i dont agree with it.

The best part of the game is the fellowship.  Finding guys and hooking up and having fun.  But there's this inescapable something that nags at me, "now, why are your doing this?  What's the object of this game?"

I couldnt agree with you more but you have asked and answered your own question!  We do this because of the fellowship, The challange and the thrill of the kill.  It feeds a primal need to hunt that we can do safely within the confines of our homes. It isnt about winning or losing.  Besides...When your in a good fight and you are victorious...isnt that winning??

[BaldEagl]

The only real weakness in HTC's product is it does not provide the essential outcome that all games provide, winners and losers.  

I have to take major issue with this statement. 

The beauty of AH is that it provides so many winners and losers on so many levels.  There is the individual fight, the base capture, the war win, the score win (in multiple categories btw), etc.  Moving beyond that are the less quantifiable wins; surviving against overwhelming odds or in an "obsolete" aircraft, an exceptional sortie, your name in lights landing kills, etc., etc., etc.  These winners and losers might be individuals, teams (squads), entire countries or just a couple guys winging up. 

The beauty of AH is that there's something for everyone and I think that contributes to it's success.  Everyone has the chance to be a winner (or loser) everytime they log on.  It all depends on what you're looking for.

[Vudak]

Then, what really sunk the hook in deeply was the fact that folks from all over the world could work together for the common goal of winning the war.  That battle has been fought and lost.

It's not as though winning the war is out of the question...  The problem is, the same people who don't want to put in any effort to sit down and think about the air combat aspects of this game, don't put in any effort to sit down and think about the strategic aspects of this game, either. 

Many people who claim furballers are "Mindless," need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

[CAP1]

You know what I like to whine about.... why do people insist on comparing this GAME to real life?

Of course if more people looked at it as a game more people might avoid ganging a good fight, maybe avoid a "cheap shot" HO, avoid vulching, avoid spawn camping, in general, learn to play the game, not to "game" the game. Score isn't the most important thing in this game. It is a fighter simulation game, a game where you are suppose to "fight" players from all over the world. Pit your skills against live opponents in simulated air to air combat. I've never seen any place where it says to have the best score.

yaknow, i say what you said a lot...no one listens. i read grims next post following the one i quoted here.......he doesn't get it, and probably never will.....i can't make myself read any further in this one......

[Ack-Ack]

seems to me if I remember correctly Mcquire was killed because he violated his own rules while trying to beat Dick Bong in the Ace of ace's race going on at the time?

This is not ment as disrespect to the hero but just a fact of the war.

He violated his own dicta to save a wingman when he spun in and died.


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Good post, but I hear the term "vet" being thrown around alot in everyone's writing, but what constitutes as a vet exactly? 

When you have "Playing Since Tour XXX" in your signature then you've hit "Vet" status.


ack-ack

[GrimWulf]

I Would like to thank everyone who posted in this topic. Most replies were well thought-out and wise. I never expected to start such a long and serious topic on the philosophy of AHII. I think that most of us agree that the reason we play is for fun, and comradeship with our friends. All I really wanted to express is the sadness at whining in general that can be found, by that I mean it seems there is no right way but plenty of wrong ways to shoot someone down as someone posted earlier.  You are right this is just game. I hope that in my posts I have not offended anyone, and I think we can all agree to disagree. I hope to see you all in the air, and <S> to each and every one of you. No hard feelings from my end, I hope none from yours. I have learned a lot from some of you and will try to be more "friendly" I guess is the word, with the tactics I employ to shoot someone down.

 

[19kilo10(ironnite)]

When I get shot down....I cuss and bit*h about how the guy cheated.......(unless Im drunk)....the
I reup and go at it again. Guess Im a masochist

[Hap]

MMORPG's have no clear winners or losers and yet they are THE most popular games on the market today. World of Warcraft doesnt have a clear winner or loser...People play the game for the experiance of the game itself. Not for winning or losing.  so while i feel your point was made eloquently i dont agree with it.

Ghost, thanks for posting.  Besides playing Quake once back in 1998??? at a friends house on his network at home, I've never tried those games.  But boy are you right.  THE most popular.

And I think HTC dialed into that.  Sucessfully so.  Great business decision.  Proof's in the pudding.

Even so, a very saavy game builder, someday, will provide the missing ingredients I expect.  But then, maybe times have changed so much that it would be a silly thing to do so.

[FiLtH]

 The key to happiness in the MA is accepting the fact that most players fly in hoards. Once you accept this, and can hold your tongue, you can have fun fighting them, and quite often win. It takes alot of practice, and dicipline knowing when to abandon the easy shot on a guy that will take place in 5 seconds, when you instead need to break off that easy shot to avoid the other guy who will shoot you in 3 seconds.

  Use it as a learning tool,and you will improve. Let the other guys fly the way they do, they will anyways.

 

[thrila]

yay go horde!

I bumped into a organised 190 mission that turned into a gangbang last night while i was low- it came with the customary tempest screaming in at 500mph.  I can understand dispatching a few guys to deal with a low con, but 6, 7 or 8 of them?  It's a little excessive to say the least.   As filth said you have to accept the horde unfortunately.

You can even watch it - all 2 mins of it.

http://www.4shared.com/file/64566109/e12246bd/190horde.html

[scot12b]

[Shuffler]

I takes'em as I find'em....

[Zazen13]

There's an important thing to understand about this topic. The tendency is for the individual to look at this subjectively and in temporal isolation. This is especially true if he is the recent victim of a horde bang. But, step back and look at the bigger tactical picture. Gang hording a single con is bad tactics. The more enemy that engage a single bandit the more vulnerable they become to any other enemy bandit that approaches and the less likely they are individually to score a victory.

For example, say I am wandering into an area, there's 1 friendly at 12k, 5 enemy at 15k and me at 10k. Well, the 5 enemy at 15k don't notice me as I am far away, but they all pile on my friendly who has no choice but to spiral dive defensively in my general direction. I come in and kill two or three of the enemy that blew all of their E chasing my friend as they are now below me, and my friend is able to escape with me as cover. By all attacking my single friend they unecessarily put themselves in a position to be attacked at a disadvantage. The enemy bandits only had a 20% chance each to score a victory, all factors being equal.

Now say instead, the 5 enemy do not all engage my friend, only 2 do. Now my friend is engaged and as I approach I am confronted by 3 enemy higher than me and either forced to engage or egress. Either way my friend and I are in no position to mutually assist one another. We'd both be doing well to just survive an encounter with multiple higher enemy. Both groups of enemy were able to attack with the advantage.The enemy bandits on my friend had a 50% chance of scoring a victory and the ones on me had a 33% chance.

The second scenario is actually how it happened in real life. Only the force necessary was applied, the remaining elements stayed as top cover to confont other, hitherto unknown, bogeys. So, in the game, anytime you see gang banging you can take comfort in the fact that they are relatively ineffective because they are resigning themselves to a much smaller fraction of kills and making themselves much more vulnerable to being killed. In essence they are making things a lot easier for you and your team than it would be if they didn't gang-bang.