Author Topic: P-39N  (Read 964 times)

Offline 1pLUs44

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P-39N
« on: September 21, 2008, 02:26:12 PM »
Give the P-39Q an option for 4 .303s instead of 2 .50s, or make a whole new plane.

The P-39N is basically the P-39Q, just 4 .303s in the wings instead of 2 .50s.

P-39N skins shouldn't be on our little P-39D.
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Offline SectorNine50

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 11:15:07 AM »
Why do you want the P-39N with lower armament?  Aren't there other aircraft that we can add that won't just sit in the hanger?
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Offline Krusty

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 12:13:42 PM »
P-39N skins shouldn't be on our little P-39D.

Nor would they be. They'd go to the P-39Q model.

Offline Boozeman

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 12:34:32 PM »
Why do you want the P-39N with lower armament?  Aren't there other aircraft that we can add that won't just sit in the hanger?

It would have almost the firepower as a 39Q with gondolas (and alot more ammo I suppose), but not the drag penalty.
Possibly be an intresting option, especially since it does not require much modeling work.   

Offline Krusty

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 12:59:37 PM »
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.

600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.

That coupled with the fact you've only got 1 gun in each wing instead of 2, means you save a lot of weight on the P-39 by using the 2 wing guns (and you save even more weight by not taking any!).

Drag is not the only problem. Drag will affect your top level speed. The added weight will affect your stall, your turn performance, greatly reduce your climb rate, reduce your roll rate (the weight IS in the wings, after all). Internal vs. external is only part of the equation. Keep in mind, also, that the hitting power of 1x .50cal in this game is about equal to 3x .30cal rounds. It has greater range, impact, and is much more capable. 2x 50cals are worth 6x 30cals. You're gaining 50% increase in hitting power, and get better range/ballistics on top of that.


Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.

Offline trigger2

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 01:20:48 PM »
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.

600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.

Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.

Lets do the math here... 260/108 = 2.407...
Check the work...

2.407 x 108 = 259.596
Okay, now we go on...

600 * 2.407 = 1444.2

So, 1444.2 .50 cal rounds equals the weight of 4000 rounds of .30 cals... I think the .30 cals have the weight advantage...

Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.

Well, I perfer to call it aiming, cause see, .303's put in the right spot do some serious damage ;)
.50 cals, yes, they're easier to shoot and take parts off with, but don't say that just because of that, they're better.
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Offline Boozeman

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 01:40:04 PM »
Well,  I may be wrong, but it looks like that the P39N would be pretty much like the 39D with the Qs WEP option.

If thats basically true, then the 39N would have a 100 lb weight advantage over the podded Q, about 8 mph speed advantage
and would carry more destructive potential (4000 x 0,3 lbs vs 600 x 1,17 lbs ).

The loss in firepower is not that dramatic. 4 x .50 spit out 56 lbs/s worth of orndnace 4 x .30 + 2 x .50 do 48 lbs/s.
The 15% loss in firepower (even less if we consider the 37 mm in the complete gun package as well)
would be well worth the gain in speed alone, at lease for me.       

Offline Krusty

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 02:32:11 PM »
No the empty weights would be the same as with the Q. Yes, engine is the same. Given that the empty weight is the same and the nose guns are the same, the only major difference is the wing guns.

Trigger, your math is nonsense, because the 50cal gunpack only comes with 300 rounds per gun, 600 total. The 4x 30cal internal guns setup has 1000 rounds per gun, 4000 total.

That's where the weight difference comes into play.

The ammo alone for the 2 guns packages leaves the 4x 30cal package 152lbs heavier from just the bullets alone.

And as far as aiming goes: Assuming YOUR skill doesn't change, assuming you can fly the plane to get hits on target, any hits you land with 4x50cal are more powerful than those you land with 2x50cal and 4x30cal. That's just a fact of how AH is modeled. On top of that, the round are able to do catastrophic damage at MUCH longer ranges. 30cals become almost useless outside 200 yards, 50cals are good up to 400 or so. Assuming your rounds hit where you want, one guns package is clearly better than the other, weighs less, hits harder, hits further.

Offline VansCrew1

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 02:54:16 PM »
We need more planes then worrying about the ammo a plane could hold. If you want to 4 .303's fly the 39D.
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Offline 321BAR

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 04:49:26 PM »
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.

600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.

That coupled with the fact you've only got 1 gun in each wing instead of 2, means you save a lot of weight on the P-39 by using the 2 wing guns (and you save even more weight by not taking any!).

Drag is not the only problem. Drag will affect your top level speed. The added weight will affect your stall, your turn performance, greatly reduce your climb rate, reduce your roll rate (the weight IS in the wings, after all). Internal vs. external is only part of the equation. Keep in mind, also, that the hitting power of 1x .50cal in this game is about equal to 3x .30cal rounds. It has greater range, impact, and is much more capable. 2x 50cals are worth 6x 30cals. You're gaining 50% increase in hitting power, and get better range/ballistics on top of that.


Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.
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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 05:05:18 PM »
What about other P-39s? P-39K?

I'd like a gun option, or a new plane (which wouldn't be hard to add I think). I would hate to see Pokryshkin's infamous P-39N go on our little P-39D. You know what I mean? I want the option for mostly historical purposes. Plus, in my opinion, the 2 extra .50s are worse. Just because the drag they cause from being under the wing.
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Offline VansCrew1

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 05:59:08 PM »
What about the other planes we need?

The fact is the P39 is not a major player in the Late War arena's. Why work on something that not many people will use?
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 10:51:17 AM »
Here is a WWII catridge/MG lesson:

The ".303" were the .30 caliber cartridge used by the British and Commonwealth forces.  The only American unit that I know of that might have used the .303 British in their aircraft were the Flying Tigers in China.  Otherwise, when the US used .30 caliber MGs' in their plane it was their own ".30 cal" (7.62mm), which was the "U.S. Springfield .30-06".  The Japs used their 7.7mm, the Germans used the 7.92 (8mm Mauser), the Italians used the 6.5 Carcano, the Soviets the 7.62x54R, The French the 7.5mm.  On and on...

as a firearms hobbyist and collector, I cringe when I see mis-use of terminology.  The US P39 aircraft with the .30cal MG's fired the US .30 cal which was not the .303 British.   ;)   The Spitfires and Hurricanes had the .303 British.  The P40B, P39x, etc, all have the US .30cal (.30-06).

With all that being said, when it comes to ballsitics and performance we're really splitting hairs, with the only one that really sticks out is the Italian 6.5 Carcano and that is because of its lack of performance in comparison to other cartridges.  When speaking of .30 caliber MG's on an aircraft it is best just to say as such: "The .30cal MG's" then the entire realm is covered.       
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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2008, 04:39:33 PM »
What about the other planes we need?

The fact is the P39 is not a major player in the Late War arena's. Why work on something that not many people will use?

Good scenarios and what not. Why is it so hard to add 4 .30s on our P-39Q. A small update HTC could do next update.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: P-39N
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2008, 04:49:39 PM »
I'm not denying it would be an easy fix. Perhaps they don't want unhistorical 4x30cal options on soviet planes that didn't use them (i.e. using the P-39Q in events/scenarios)??

I'm not sure. I was commenting more on the REASONS for wanting a separate plane. They were inaccurate reasons (plane weight, power of the guns, etc).