Author Topic: The Bailout  (Read 2219 times)

Offline Hangtime

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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline alskahawk

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2008, 11:44:07 PM »
 Nice internet! 2 different sites 2 different outcomes!

 Emailed them. Let you know if I get a response. It wouldn't surprise me if McCain did not vote. It was a bill that was going to pass with or without his vote.

 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 11:55:17 PM by alskahawk »

Offline bustr

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2008, 01:50:45 AM »
Most of the damage was done by Clinton, Janet Reno and Barny Frank in the 90's. Clinton ordered the Community Reinvestment Act inforced. Reno made examples of banks that questioned it and Barny Frank chaired the committee that controled Fanni and Freddi and would not allow any legislation to thighten over sight on the two institutions. He helped force them to more creatively underwrite bad loans to undeserving minorities right up to the present.

S.900 was bipartisan and Clinton got a strengthening of the Community Reinvestment act in 1999 which helped speed up the bad lending practices. The deregulation of the banking industry was not able to protect anyone from using the bad fanni and freddi mortgage fund and investment devices for business as usual. The deregulation was modeled on how the EU banking practices had been running for quit some time partly to help american banks to stop being mired in litigation for almost every transaction between themselves or EU banks. Everyone bought the investment devices in the US and abroad because they had always been sound reliable instraments to use as secure trading devices.

Bill Clinton, Janet Reno and Barny Frank screwed america. A philanderer, a lesbian and a Gay horndog bent the US over and used sand.

So grow up, actually read these bills in their entireity and see when the seed was sown and by whom.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Sixpence

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2008, 07:10:13 AM »
This all started from Slick Willys years in office..Liberals and their give away programs.The Clinton
admistration pressured Banks and leading instutions to lend more money to the poor and minoritys.

wow, who didn't see that coming?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Sixpence

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2008, 07:11:05 AM »
DEAR SIR TAXPAYER,

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AS YOU INDICATE INTEREST, PLEASE BE FAST TO CONTACT ME (LEAVENOBANKERBEHIND@TRASURERY.GOV) TO ENABLE ME TO GIVE YOU FURTHER INFORMATION RELATIVE TO THE TRANSFER OF FUNDS.

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YOURS SINCERELY TRULY
SIR HENRY PAULSON

Myelo, FTW!!
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline crockett

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #95 on: September 24, 2008, 07:42:07 AM »
Screw any regulation!

Just go back to the way it was PRIOR to the gov getting involved in the first place.  Before the gov stepped in and basically told lenders to give loans to those that could not afford them, the lenders did not give loans to those who could not afford them.  I say just go back to letting the lenders do whatever they want and pay the price if they screw up...this time no gov backing or assurances. 

Same thing you are saying laz, just no gov regulation telling the lenders what they can or can't do.

I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears if you haven't picked it up by now, however I will try to explain once again.  There was "More" govt regulation in the past. The bill that was passed in the 90's "deregulated" (ie deregulated means less regulation) the market so the banks "could" lend money to people that didn't fit the federal criteria in the past. Meaning in the past the Banks could loan money to any bum they wanted to, it just wasn't federally insured and backed by the govt.

The Banks wanted to be able to lend more money to people that weren't currently able to be federally insured. The banks pushed for that bill in fact they wrote the freaking thing and paid off three Republicans to sponsor it in the House & Senate. I really wish you would quit repeating BS lies claiming "they were "forced" to lend to these people.. No one forced anyone they pushed for the bill. They wanted to lend to people that were more risky, however they didn't want to do it unless it was federally insured to cover their asses.

In short they were more than willing to lend to anyone they could as long as the govt backed them, because then it's not much of a risk now is it? I know I'm likely wasting my time, but call me a sucker for trying to actually explain the truth to you..
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 07:44:48 AM by crockett »
"strafing"

Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2008, 08:07:35 AM »
I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears if you haven't picked it up by now, however I will try to explain once again.  There was "More" govt regulation in the past. The bill that was passed in the 90's "deregulated" (ie deregulated means less regulation) the market so the banks "could" lend money to people that didn't fit the federal criteria in the past. Meaning in the past the Banks could loan money to any bum they wanted to, it just wasn't federally insured and backed by the govt.

The Banks wanted to be able to lend more money to people that weren't currently able to be federally insured. The banks pushed for that bill in fact they wrote the freaking thing and paid off three Republicans to sponsor it in the House & Senate. I really wish you would quit repeating BS lies claiming "they were "forced" to lend to these people.. No one forced anyone they pushed for the bill. They wanted to lend to people that were more risky, however they didn't want to do it unless it was federally insured to cover their asses.

In short they were more than willing to lend to anyone they could as long as the govt backed them, because then it's not much of a risk now is it? I know I'm likely wasting my time, but call me a sucker for trying to actually explain the truth to you..

Agreed.  Step back and look at who was making the money.  Always look to see who's making the money.
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Offline Toad

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #97 on: September 24, 2008, 08:12:17 AM »
The Banks wanted to be able to lend more money to people that weren't currently able to be federally insured. The banks pushed for that bill in fact they wrote the freaking thing and paid off three Republicans to sponsor it in the House & Senate. I really wish you would quit repeating BS lies claiming "they were "forced" to lend to these people.. No one forced anyone they pushed for the bill. They wanted to lend to people that were more risky, however they didn't want to do it unless it was federally insured to cover their asses.


That's pure spin. Glass-Stegall would not have been repealed without the concurrence and complicity of the Democrats.

From Wiki but it is a matter of record. The Dems required "improvements" to the CRA in return for their support of Gramm-Leach-Bliley; they got their "improvements and the bill passed.


"After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. Democrats agreed to support the bill only after Republicans agreed to strengthen provisions of the Community Reinvestment Act "

Now to the CRA itself.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mzk3MzFiYWY3NjUyNzUyNzA4MzYzNTk2ZDVhMDFiMWE=

"Much more problematic than Gramm-Leach-Bliley is the Community Reinvestment Act, a bit of legislative arm-twisting much beloved by Sen. Obama and his fellow Democrats. One of the reasons so many bad mortgage loans were made in the first place is that Barack Obama’s celebrated community organizers make their careers out of forcing banks to do so. ACORN, for which Obama worked, is one of many left-wing organizations that spent decades pressuring banks and bank regulators to do more to make mortgages available to people without much in the way of income, assets, or credit. These campaigns often were couched in racially inflammatory terms. The result was the Community Reinvestment Act. The CRA empowers the FDIC and other banking regulators to punish those banks which do not lend to the poor and minorities at the level that Obama’s fellow community organizers would like. Among other things, mergers and acquisitions can be blocked if CRA inquisitors are not satisfied that their demands — which are political demands — have been met. There is a name for loans made to people who do not have the credit, assets, income, or down payment to qualify for a normal mortgage: subprime.

The bankers cannot blame CRA entirely; they made a lot of bad bets on rising home prices. But CRA did influence lending standards across the banking industry, even in those institutions that are not strictly liable to its jurisdiction. The subprime debacle is in no trivial part the result of lending decisions in which political extortion trumped businesses’ normal bottom-line concerns."

Sadly, the CRA did result in political demands which were met by lenders and led us to where we are right now.

At least be honest about this. It took both parties to screw this up and they did a magnificent job together on that.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #98 on: September 24, 2008, 08:19:42 AM »
Wow.  That media source doesn't appear biased in the slightest, does it?

[/sarcasm]

The banks were making bank off it.  Follow the money trail.  Who lobbied so hard for the deregulations?
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Offline lazs2

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2008, 08:30:52 AM »
Any of you who did not notice the increased pressure to loan to minorities and low income and to "diversify" communities that has been happening over the last decade or so is either really dense or really dishonest.

Once you encourage bad loans to any group.. the floodgates are open.   the sleazes use the loopholes.. once you allow enough people to get credit that should not have it.. the bubble will form and.. eventually.. bust.

Regulation or deregulation had little to do with it.   some of the most regulated are in deep doo doo.. some of the least regulated are profitable.

You simply can't make bad loans no matter how much the government tries to bribe or coerce you into it.

The government needs to get out of it.    Other than to prosecute predatory lenders and dishonest lending.

lazs

Offline Toad

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2008, 08:32:54 AM »
It's biased.

Let me give you a little clue though. If one is intelligent enough to see the underlying facts then one should be able to disregard the spin.

The FACT is that Gramm-Leach-Bliley would not have passed without Democrats supporting it.

The FACT is that the Democrats required big changes to the Community Reinvestment Act in return for their support.

The FACT is that the Community Reinvestment Act led to a huge number of previously impossible subprime loans.

Did the banks make money? Absolutely. Did the CRA create a huge number of now problematic and failing subprime loans? Absolutely.

The point is that a discerning researcher reaches the inescapable conclusion that both the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for this disaster. Yeah, they supported different parts of the disaster but together they have nearly thrown the world into a huge financial crisis and may still pull that off.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2008, 08:48:47 AM »
The point is that a discerning researcher reaches the inescapable conclusion that both the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for this disaster. Yeah, they supported different parts of the disaster but together they have nearly thrown the world into a huge financial crisis and may still pull that off.

Yup.  They both went along with it for their own reasons.  Either way we're up sh*t creek without a paddle.
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Offline lazs2

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2008, 08:54:59 AM »
yes.. they both went along with it for their own reasons..  the socialist democrats pandered to the dregs with their community act and the republicans pandered to their sleazy business loan companies.

As you say..we are screwed.   

The point should be inescapable tho..   no matter what side you are on politically.. you have to admit that government involvement got us into the mess.

lazs

Offline crockett

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2008, 08:56:40 AM »
It's biased.

Let me give you a little clue though. If one is intelligent enough to see the underlying facts then one should be able to disregard the spin.

The FACT is that Gramm-Leach-Bliley would not have passed without Democrats supporting it.

The FACT is that the Democrats required big changes to the Community Reinvestment Act in return for their support.

The FACT is that the Community Reinvestment Act led to a huge number of previously impossible subprime loans.

Did the banks make money? Absolutely. Did the CRA create a huge number of now problematic and failing subprime loans? Absolutely.

The point is that a discerning researcher reaches the inescapable conclusion that both the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for this disaster. Yeah, they supported different parts of the disaster but together they have nearly thrown the world into a huge financial crisis and may still pull that off.

Humm the fact is the act was sponsored by Republicans. It's even named after the guys that sponsored it. It was a Republican Controlled Congress which passed it with out support of the Democrats. It was a Republican controlled Senate whom passed it in conjunction with the Democrats.

The simple fact is the Republicans didn't need the Democrats in the House, as there was nothing the Dem's could do to stop it because the Rep's had such a majority. The Senate they required the Dem's to be able to pass it. The Dems agreed to pass it if the Repubs agreed to compromise on the bill.

So you say it would have passed with out Democrat support. Well big news flash.. It wouldn't have passed with out Republican support either.. Hell it likely never would have made it to the House floor with out Republican support. So take your blame everything on the Democrats idealism and shove it.  :D  The FACT is both parties are responsible equally!
"strafing"

Offline bongaroo

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Re: The Bailout
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2008, 09:07:00 AM »
I don't think you read his whole post.  The last line he wrote is about how both parties are to blame.
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