Debate

[DREDIOCK]

You obviously don't get to high level meetings with out having low level meetings first. Obama isn't saying he's gonna run right over to Iran and start blabbing away to the Supreme Leader.

Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"



The debate as a whole I agree with the CNN commentators. pretty much a tie

I completely dissagree with Crockett that Obama controlled the debate. He did however hold his own very well.
In fact both did.
And remember I predicted that Obama would pretty much own McCain in the debate. so thats a shift on my part

I thought they both for the most part,bumbled their way through the bailout
Both were very obviously trying to avoid talk about the current economic events going on in Washington.

But Obama did seem much more prepared to put forth his economic agenda (weather we agree with it or not)
McCain was too vague on the issue. He could have done better if he expanded on his own policies and  pointed out in greater detail the flaws in Obamas.
Moreso then just "Obamas idea of wealthy"

McCain also didnt do well in defending Obamas attacks on his policies.

On Iraq. It would depend on who's view you support as to who won this.
But IMO McCain did better and has the better strategy. Honestly I dont see Obama doing anything different should he win as it really is the only responsible option

One point McCain made to very good effect in both Iraq and other areas was the continual "I was there" and "I went there"
As Patton used to say "One personal observation is worth 1,000 reports"

Forgeign affairs I agree with what ian5440 posted when he said "i dint think Obama did bad during the Foreign Policy segment. I felt he showed he was well informed and was not naive, no matter how much  McCain tried to emphasize that"

But McCains experience shined through. It was clear that McCain as poorly prepared for the economic portion.
Was better prepared in foreign policy.

I score it a technical draw with the edge on economic presentation going to Obama and the edge on foreign affairs going to McCain.
they both received poor grades from me in the opening segment about the bailout, each saying alot of nothing. but saying it very well.


In conclusion

McCain fared far better then I thought he would.
And he must have been reading my posts  here(yea right) because he did start to do the one thing I said he needed to do. Distance himself from Bush.
"hard headed" Poorly managed and a couple of other swipes I think even if they meant little in the debate itself.  Could go a LONG way in helping him overall outside the debates. He needs to keep that up and emphasize it. That in effect will neuter the "more of the same" chants from the Obama camp.
IMO he needs to figuratively speaking outright biotch slap  Bush on some of his policies.
Basically he needs to run an "I am NOT George Bush" campaign

Unfortunately he didnt do as well in the one area that's most important to the people right now. The economy.
Not that he sucked at it. He just didn't expand on his positions, nor did he point out the flaws in Obamas enough.
It was about as organised as my desk. (which isnt) He knows what he means. He just didnt convey it well enough

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
McCains chances ride on the economy

[DREDIOCK]

I thoroughly enjoyed the debate.  I was impressed with McCain, and I enjoyed Obamas performance as well.  This debate actually provided some much needed clarity on my part as to why I prefer McCain.  But Obama staked out his position well.  All in all I see a success for both men in the sense they expressed themselves well.......However, Im not sure that alot of "swing" voters actually swung on this debate but I think everyone probably came away feeling a bit stronger about the process.

Good post

[Hangtime]

if you tally the total earmarks it seems insignificant against the total budget... but when you factor in wasteful no bid contracts and waste via bureaucracy run wild it come up to about a third or more of the budget is just waste.

That's what McOld is talking about going after.... cleaning up waste, corruption, ineffective and inoperative agencies.

Creating more super-agencies ala obamasama's plans.. more pork, more waste.

 

[Elfie]

As far as McCain he totally fluttered on the whole spending issue, he sounded far too scripted by repeating the same thing, rather than give us "real" world examples of how he was going to cut all this spending. I'm sorry but claiming he's gonna veto everything is total BS.

Actually McCain did give us examples of how he would cut spending. He named these things at least: foreign aid to countries that don't like us anyway, eliminating earmarks, eliminating defense contracts that allow for huge cost overruns, examining each and every federal agency to determine which ones are working and which ones aren't then eliminating those that don't work and making the rest more efficient. That would likely eliminate hundreds of billions from the federal budget.

I think McCain was talking about vetoing crap that had earmarks on it, however he should have been more clear on that issue.

[Ripsnort]

Actually on CNN's own fact check they pointed out that Obama did indeed say he "would talk with anyone without pre conditions"



The debate as a whole I agree with the CNN commentators. pretty much a tie

I completely dissagree with Crockett that Obama controlled the debate. He did however hold his own very well.
In fact both did.
And remember I predicted that Obama would pretty much own McCain in the debate. so thats a shift on my part

I thought they both for the most part,bumbled their way through the bailout
Both were very obviously trying to avoid talk about the current economic events going on in Washington.

But Obama did seem much more prepared to put forth his economic agenda (weather we agree with it or not)
McCain was too vague on the issue. He could have done better if he expanded on his own policies and  pointed out in greater detail the flaws in Obamas.
Moreso then just "Obamas idea of wealthy"

McCain also didnt do well in defending Obamas attacks on his policies.

On Iraq. It would depend on who's view you support as to who won this.
But IMO McCain did better and has the better strategy. Honestly I dont see Obama doing anything different should he win as it really is the only responsible option

One point McCain made to very good effect in both Iraq and other areas was the continual "I was there" and "I went there"
As Patton used to say "One personal observation is worth 1,000 reports"

Forgeign affairs I agree with what ian5440 posted when he said "i dint think Obama did bad during the Foreign Policy segment. I felt he showed he was well informed and was not naive, no matter how much  McCain tried to emphasize that"

But McCains experience shined through. It was clear that McCain as poorly prepared for the economic portion.
Was better prepared in foreign policy.

I score it a technical draw with the edge on economic presentation going to Obama and the edge on foreign affairs going to McCain.
they both received poor grades from me in the opening segment about the bailout, each saying alot of nothing. but saying it very well.


In conclusion

McCain fared far better then I thought he would.
And he must have been reading my posts  here(yea right) because he did start to do the one thing I said he needed to do. Distance himself from Bush.
"hard headed" Poorly managed and a couple of other swipes I think even if they meant little in the debate itself.  Could go a LONG way in helping him overall outside the debates. He needs to keep that up and emphasize it. That in effect will neuter the "more of the same" chants from the Obama camp.
IMO he needs to figuratively speaking outright biotch slap  Bush on some of his policies.
Basically he needs to run an "I am NOT George Bush" campaign

Unfortunately he didnt do as well in the one area that's most important to the people right now. The economy.
Not that he sucked at it. He just didn't expand on his positions, nor did he point out the flaws in Obamas enough.
It was about as organised as my desk. (which isnt) He knows what he means. He just didnt convey it well enough

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
McCains chances ride on the economy

Excellent synopsis.   

[mg1942]

if you tally the total earmarks it seems insignificant against the total budget... but when you factor in wasteful no bid contracts and waste via bureaucracy run wild it come up to about a third or more of the budget is just waste.

That's what McOld is talking about going after.... cleaning up waste, corruption, ineffective and inoperative agencies.

Creating more super-agencies ala obamasama's plans.. more pork, more waste.

 

Sorry man, maybe you have some inside info but I haven't seen ANYWHERE obama's proposals to beef up agencies or create new ones.

[Hangtime]

I think McCain was talking about vetoing crap that had earmarks on it, however he should have been more clear on that issue.

"I will use the power of the veto to end wasteful spending, I will make them famous, you will know their names."

that's pretty clear.. he says it every stump speech, too.

[Hangtime]

Sorry man, maybe you have some inside info but I haven't seen ANYWHERE obama's proposals to beef up agencies or create new ones.

National Health Care out of thin air? The guy is a community organizer.. all he knows how to do is spend money.. he's never run a business, never been responsible for running a trim lean profitable organization. Everything about the guy is 'Big Government, Getting Bigger'.

[Elfie]

I'm a bit late jumping in here, but here is my assessment of the debate this evening.

I call the economy section a slight edge to McCain. Neither candidate wanted to commit to anything on the bailout issue. Both candidates tried to dodge the issue of how this current financial crisis would effect their spending bills, although to be fair, that is a very tough issue to address right now since no one knows how this issue is going to play out.

Obama wasn't clear enough on how he was going to cut spending and wants to increase taxes on the rich. Increasing taxes on the rich will only slow down our economy even more since it will remove more investment dollars from the rich and redistribute them to the government.

McCain gave multiple, clear examples of where he would cut spending. His proposed tax cuts for large corporations should help to stimulate the economy by increasing the amount of investment dollars available.

During the foreign policy segment I thought McCain's 20+ years as a US Senator clearly put him in the lead. Both men pretty much agreed on the issue of Russia yet Obama's initial reaction to the conflict speaks volumes imo. McCain gave examples of visiting Iraq and Afghanistan, negotiating for a bipartisan solution to the MIA's from the Vietnam war and led the way to normalizing relations between the US and Vietnam. Obama just hasn't been around long enough to have that kind of experience.

McCain hammered Obama for his stance on the surge in Iraq. Obama scored points for slamming McCain on the money for the troops issue by stating it wasn't an issue of funding for the troops but a fundamental difference of opinion on the time line for troop withdrawal.

Overall I think both men handled themselves well during the debate. I certainly enjoyed watching it and I'm looking forward to watching the next one as well.

[Elfie]

"I will use the power of the veto to end wasteful spending, I will make them famous, you will know their names."

that's pretty clear.. he says it every stump speech, too.

You are correct, he said that. I am trying to recall as much of it as I can. 

[Shuckins]

I can't say that I agree that Obama controlled the debate about the economy.  Many of his proposals should have been painfully transparent to any thinking voter, and McCain countered them fairly well. 

However, Obama should thank his lucky stars that Newt Gingrich wasn't debating him about the economy.  I have the feeling that Newt would have eaten him alive on the painful reality of actually having to fund his new programs.  For instance, the proposed punitive tax on the evil oil industries would make it impossible for them to take any meaningful steps toward developing alternative fuel sources, and they are the very entities best suited to develop them.  Newt made the statement during an interview last week that anyone who thinks taxing corporate profits will not have an effect on the average American isn't really in tune with reality, for millions of those same Americans are employed by those corporations, and could face all sorts of dire consequences as a result.

McCain started slower, but finished stronger.   That's good enough to win most prize fights.

[Yeager]

The one point I think McCain might have put a point on the board regarding the economy was when he compared the business tax of other countries (low) with that of the US (2nd highest global business tax @ 35%) and how by lowering the business tax you allow for more money to be invested back into the business and by proxy the larger economy.  The way Obama described it the problem of giving big tax breaks to businesses is that those monies not going to taxes then tend to wind up in the pockets of the business owners....which I guess is bad.  You know to Obamas and the liberals credit, when you look at these failing investment firms and see those fat cats are walking away from shattered businesses holding severance packages worth millions of dollars, those same businesses that are now angling for 750 billion in tax payer benefits to prop up their ruptured business models, people cant help but feel they are being ripped off.  And they are.

I guess what Im looking for is sensible economy enhancing regulations and sensible conservative economic models that reward honest business.  I don't believe in government mandated confiscatory taxation to prop up and maintain what in essence is a socialist form of government.  But thats just me.

[Dago]

The very first thing in the debate was one thing that stuck with the most, when Yomama, talking about the economic bailout package said "and I put forth that the package" and he went on to give the impression that accountability, controls on CEO compensation, oversight etc were all HIS ideas.  All the ideas he mentioned were already being put in place before he got to Washington and they weren't his ideas.  What a lieing phony.

[MORAY37]

Oh so you missed his campaign mocking that McCain cant use a computer?  (Due to the severe torture and breaking of his arms to the North Vietnamesse in prison)

I think you see what you want to see.  Most liberals are all for negative ads...til they get them back.

Actually, he broke his arms ejecting from his A4.... but swing it however you want.

[Hap]

If George W. Bush, John McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much the same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers in 1832, Jackson said, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”


From a guy on Buchanan's website.  Would love Mcain to say things like this.