Another perspective on McCain vs Obama

[Yeager]

Explain the Victory at Midway... without luck.

Those guys, in torpedo 8, in a singular act of absolute bravery, sacrificed their lives completely.

A list of the fallen:

    * Lt. Commander John C. Waldron
    * Lt. Raymond A. Moore
    * Lt. James C. Owens, Jr.
    * Lt.(jg) George M. Campbell
    * Lt.(jg) John P. Gray
    * Lt.(jg) Jeff D. Woodson
    * Ens. William W. Abercrombie
    * Ens. William W. Creamer
    * Ens. Harold J. Ellison
    * Ens. William R. Evans
    * Ens. Henry R. Kenyon
    * Ens. Ulvert M. Moore
    * Ens. Grant W. Teats
    * Robert B. Miles, Aviation Pilot 1c
    * Horace F. Dobbs, Chief Radioman
    * Amelio Maffei, Radioman 1
    * Tom H. Pettry, Radioman 1
    * Otway D. Creasy, Jr. Radioman 2
    * Ross H. Bibb, Jr., Radioman 2
    * Darwin L. Clark, Radioman 2
    * Ronald J. Fisher, Radioman 2
    * Hollis Martin, Radioman 2
    * Bernerd P. Phelps Radioman 2
    * As well L. Picou, Seaman 2
    * Francis S. Polston, Seaman 2
    * Max A. Calkins, Radioman 3
    * George A. Field, Radioman 3
    * Robert K. Huntington, Radioman 3
    * William F. Sawhill, Radioman 3

If there is a God, he wept that day for all of us.

[Hangtime]

Yes they did.

<S!>

If you're trying to prove a point with that one, don't. There are a lot of factors that go into things like victory in large-scale battles and a nation's growth and prosperity. A single man can't direct all of that - many factors are outside of their control. Don't wrongly attribute "luck" (being in the right place at the right time) with experience or skill.

That hit me pretty hard... evidence, experience and history provides an incredibly long list of successes and failures on almost unimaginable scale that hinge on just plain luck. Eisenhower, planner of the largest invasion in history penned an apology and resignation as well as a victory speech the night before D-Day. He was lucky Hitler was sleeping.. Torpedo 8 was unlucky.. but their arrival first stripped the CAP; lucky for Bombing 8... lucky for Nimitz his gamble with all the dice rolled his way. Leaders do everything they can to 'manufacture' favorable conditions; favorable 'luck'... and luck either smiles on him, or it doesn't.

Experience and skill alone won't win the battle and even 'knowing' when to roll the dice often has little to do with 'em coming up snake-eyes.   

[DREDIOCK]

To O.P.

How exactly did McCain "defeat" Obama in regards to foreign affairs?

Easy answer.
When Obama said he would wage attacks into Pakistan

McCain came back with the best statement and effectively schooled. Yes I say "Schooled" Obama when he said something to the effect of "You dont publicly say that."

I dont know if anyone else picked up on that. Or its importance. But it certainly came off to me as a statement not only for the debate but one in which was intended to transend this election.
It was almost as if he said "Look even if you do win this thing. you never ever ever do this"

Note. he didnt say "you dont attack into Pakistan"
You dont publicaly say it.
In other words he was saying. dont ever let them know what your thinking. even if that is exactly what you are intending.

Obama IMO by his statement was effectively doing the same thing as Geraldo Rivera did by drawing a map in the dirt on the news showing exactly where he was.

Not to mention potentially alienating an already tenuous ally

You never let them know exactly what your thinking

[DREDIOCK]

I'm sorry, but a Socialist?  Dominates the economics game?









HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

He presented his case better then McCain did.

Im not saying his policies are right, or that I agree with them.
I dont particularly case for either. (Too much and not enough for both)

But from a presentation standpoint. he presented himself better on economics.

[DREDIOCK]

Hell, we supplied Joe Stalin with war material. Guess that just proves how evil we really were/are.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[DREDIOCK]

.  In the United States more power changes hands without disruption of the social fabric than in any other country. 

Untill the year 2000 that is.
Then all hell broke loose LMAO

[Toad]

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

No, no, no, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo!

If you EVER help someone that later turns out to be a bad person or turns against you then you must be punished for helping him even if that help was of immense value to you at the time.

Ask a Libbie... they can explain better than I can. 'Course, half of them call him Saint Josef Stalin......