why do people want to be liberals?

[Ripsnort]

You know, what you just said reminded me of something that I heard talking to a guy at work. He made the point that what we had for Liberals and Conservatives 50 years' ago are completely different than what we have today. For an example, look at how both parties' have changed; They used to not be so completely different on all issues, but Today, they are almost polar opposites.

Not quite. Both are spending money like crazy, I'll give you than, but Democrats would (and will if Obama is elected, I'll punt this topic in 2 years as proof, if you've not left by then)prefer to tax you to death than give you a tax break.

[DmonSlyr]

yeah reallly i cant wait to scream "i told you so" to everybody cause i just cant see obama doing the right change. what ever that change is that no one has told me in 90 post.

[Sixpence]

They are?  Wow..I didn't know that. (not being a smartazz either)

You know, he might be on to something, socially anyway. My mom says how times have changed, how people would walk down the street and say hello and have a long conversations. How all the neighbors knew each other. How people would go door to door singing christmas carols, and people would invite them in for hot chocolate. Now people seem to avoid each other, they are not as friendly anymore. You might even be thought of as strange if you went door to door singing christmas carols, shoot, you might even get court ordered to stop.

So yeah, that might be socially conservative I guess

[Ripsnort]

You know, he might be on to something, socially anyway. My mom says how times have changed, how people would walk down the street and say hello and have a long conversations. How all the neighbors knew each other. How people would go door to door singing christmas carols, and people would invite them in for hot chocolate. Now people seem to avoid each other, they are not as friendly anymore. You might even be thought of as strange if you went door to door singing christmas carols, shoot, you might even get court ordered to stop.

So yeah, that might be socially conservative I guess

In psychology, it's called an invert.
When I lived on the East coast, it was particularly "Clickish". That spawns inverts. Ironically, most were democrats (NJ, NY, MA)

[mg1942]

You know, he might be on to something, socially anyway. My mom says how times have changed, how people would walk down the street and say hello and have a long conversations. How all the neighbors knew each other. How people would go door to door singing christmas carols, and people would invite them in for hot chocolate. Now people seem to avoid each other, they are not as friendly anymore. You might even be thought of as strange if you went door to door singing christmas carols, shoot, you might even get court ordered to stop.

Now THAT's strange.

[RedTop]

Im not really an invert. I play a huge amount of golf with some guys. Im a home body...When not playing golf or working  , but get out some with the wife and family for dinners and such.

What I meant by my statement was.....Im conservative in my beliefs..I don't usually look for controversy , but won't back down. I don't think government has ANYPLACE in my home. I have several guns and believe in mine and others right to have them. I don't think illegals shuld have rights just given to them because they SAY so...In fact I think the same way they got in...will take em back out.

Libs seem to have an attitude of....Screw god....screw anything that has to do with god...and I will force my way on you and you'll like it or I'll just take you to court. They don't like anything that may be in the least bit religeous. Thier freedom of speech is more important that yours. They think they are smarter. Just all in all I see MOST of the country like that. Several other thngs stick out...but why get into it.

I want to keep my money I make. I don't mind paying taxes as long as its fair for ALL. Not the millionaires that find loop holes to pay less of a percentage than I. And that "well they paid millions to your thousands" argument dont cut it for me. If I have to pay 35 percent then they should pay 35 percent. Not 17. Yes it was millions...but thats not the point. When you have MILLIONS upon MILLIONS upon MILLIONS and will never EVER worry for a thing in their life...paying less than the average joe who doesnt have the luxury of LAWYERS (plural) to get em out of a few hundred dollars...then they should pay.

This anything goes lifestyle that I believe liberals live is what I mean. No taking responsibility for actions.

I've rambled enough.

[crockett]

Dude, you know and I know they had they broke the law, the Demoncrats would have had an impeachment order drafted so fast (for paybacks to Clinton if nothing else.)  They didn't. No law was broken. End of story.

Your wrong.. it went to court and the supreme court made him stop because the wiretaps were deemed illegal. The case wasn't about pressing criminal charges aginst the Bush admin.. The case was suing them to get the wiretaps stopped.

You can read about it here.
http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2005/12/20/spying/index.html

As for impeachment, unlike the Republican whom tried to impeach Clinton for everything under the sun, I'm pretty sure the Democrats decided it would be worse for the country to put it through that. I mean jesus, what's worse let Bush get off on the wiretaps or have Cheney take over.

Besides that Bush and co agreed to not do it and to follow the proper channels, so the lawsuit served it's purpose.

[Guppy35]

Uhh are you serious?
You would rather have a communist "every one is equal" country, then basing a country off religious beliefs?
What I don't understand is that you say liberals are more individual? But a individualist doesn't really care about what other people think. That's why they are individual. So looking at democrats in the past, I really don't think they want to help anyone but themselves.

Do you think raising gas taxes is a good idea?
Do you think buying our oil from other countries is still working great for our country?
Tell me whats wrong with building oil reserves in our own country?
Do you think people like Barnie Frank really have a clue as to what our economy is going through?
McCain KNEW that we would be in a chrises but no one listented to him.
Do you like Nancy Pelocie?
Not look at us!
You want to blame bush for everything?? How bout our BULLSH^% democratic congress that veto's every bill trying to help our country.

Democrats won't do anything but help themselves, if we fail they blame everything on Bush. EVERYTHING! And try to make BULLSH^& excuses why our country is failing.

If Obama becomes president, we wont hear nearly as much from him as we will the DEM congress, they are going to USE Obama to pass all their bills and their will be nothing we can do about it.

McCain wants to work with the democrats and try to make us unify as one. The DEM congress though I bet you anything they will veto and vote against anything McCain trys to pass. Why? because DEMs only care about themselves and not about a country as one! Its there way or the highway, nothing a republican can say in the world that would change there mind for good or bad.

That's why I hate DEM beliefs: they don't listen to the other side.

Ohh and no one has told me any change that Obama has in store for our economy as far as getting us out of this hole? WHAT IS IT?

LOL what planet have you been living on?  We had a Republican President, House and Senate.  What happened?  Why when they had all the power did they lose it?  Tough to blame anyone but themselves for that one.

You are talking exactly like the description of those Dem's you hate.  You are so stuck in finding a way to blame the Dem's, you can't see the forest for the trees.

And since when did this country become us vs them?  Thought we were all Americans?  Maybe the problem is both sides are so busy trying to blame each other, they forget they are working for all of us?

[Hangtime]

 Maybe the problem is both sides are so busy trying to blame each other, they forget they are supposed to be screwing all of us?

Fixed.

Not to worry, they'll get back to us shortly.

[Guppy35]

Im not really an invert. I play a huge amount of golf with some guys. Im a home body...When not playing golf or working  , but get out some with the wife and family for dinners and such.

What I meant by my statement was.....Im conservative in my beliefs..I don't usually look for controversy , but won't back down. I don't think government has ANYPLACE in my home. I have several guns and believe in mine and others right to have them. I don't think illegals shuld have rights just given to them because they SAY so...In fact I think the same way they got in...will take em back out.

Libs seem to have an attitude of....Screw god....screw anything that has to do with god...and I will force my way on you and you'll like it or I'll just take you to court. They don't like anything that may be in the least bit religeous. Thier freedom of speech is more important that yours. They think they are smarter. Just all in all I see MOST of the country like that. Several other thngs stick out...but why get into it.

I want to keep my money I make. I don't mind paying taxes as long as its fair for ALL. Not the millionaires that find loop holes to pay less of a percentage than I. And that "well they paid millions to your thousands" argument dont cut it for me. If I have to pay 35 percent then they should pay 35 percent. Not 17. Yes it was millions...but thats not the point. When you have MILLIONS upon MILLIONS upon MILLIONS and will never EVER worry for a thing in their life...paying less than the average joe who doesnt have the luxury of LAWYERS (plural) to get em out of a few hundred dollars...then they should pay.

This anything goes lifestyle that I believe liberals live is what I mean. No taking responsibility for actions.

I've rambled enough.

What Good Samaritan act have you performed today?   LOL  They vs you.  Same old BS.  It's us.  We all are part of this country.   We have a responsibility to each other.  Sitting back in the comfort of your home and finding someone else to blame for things doesn't sound very much like a man of faith.

I'm a firm believer that I have a responsibilty to my neighbor.  That sounds liberal doesn't it.   Hammered home by my parents and grand parents.  It's funny when I read all this BS and I think about my Father and Grandfather.  Both would have called themselves conservatives.  But I guess it was from a different time.  Out in small town South Dakota, if one of the farmers went down to illness, the other farmers got together and worked the farm for them until they could get back on their feet.   If a family was in trouble the community came to the rescue.  That's how they 'governed'.  You didn't judge people, it wasn't about how much it was going to cost you, it was about helping and being good neighbors.   My grandfather had the local lumber yard.  After he died, we were looking at the books.  He carried people for years who couldn't afford to pay their bills.  And my grandparents never had money.  He always felt it was more important to be a good friend and neighbor.  It was never about money, greed or power.  My father was the same way.  

Funny how it's a product of how I was raised and my faith.  It turns out it's not all about me in that regard.

I think about that Good Samaritan story a lot and how I watched it lived.   Funny how part of that old story applies even now.  You've got the Republican on one side of the road, unwilling to get his hands dirty to help the beaten and robbed man, and you've got the Democrat on the other side doing the same thing.  Both looking for their air time to blame the other for not doing the right thing while absolving themselves of any responsibilty.

And it's left to the little folks who don't label themselves, who see themselves as members of the human race, with a responsibilty to each other, who get left to pick up the pieces.

So spill it.  What have all you babblers done to get your hands dirty and make the world a better place, besides sit around and blame someone else for what's wrong?



Jeez I'm and idiot for ever reading any of this stuff.

[CHECKERS]

Don’t know if I consider myself a liberal.  I know I didn’t 10 years back.

I am just disgusted with the republican party.
In the last 8 years I have seen my health care cost go up my a factor of 10.  There is no reason something should go up over 10X in that kind of time.
I have seen us go to war that I believe is unjust.  Spending money I don’t believe this country has across the world.
We have been spending money on everything,  rather than cutting spending.
We now condone torture, something I was always taught that we are better then.

We have started spying on our own citizens without warrants which I believe will be a gateway into doing everything from more street cameras to  random searches of houses.

We started locking up people without trials and holding them for years before releasing them.

We have started grabbing people that are flying through our country and shipping them off to other countries to be tortured.

I have seen more of what I believe is socializing  losses of big companies in the form of  court reform limiting judgments against companies doing wrong.

Seeing collage go up 10% or more a year in a county where it is getting to become impossible to work with out going.

I don’t Really believe Obama will be much different,  the damage is already done.  But I don’t feel rewarding the same team again.  I do have a small hope that something’s may change.

  You may want to consider this.....

What do the top ten cities with the highest poverty rate all have in common?
 
Democrat leadership:
 
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961; (47 years)
 
Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn't elected one since 1954; (54 years)
 
Cincinnati, OH (3rd)... since 1984; (24 years)
 
Cleveland, OH (4th)... since 1989; (19 years)
 
Miami, FL (5th) has NEVER had a Republican Mayor;
 
St. Louis, MO (6th).... since 1949; (59 years)
 
El Paso, TX (7th) has NEVER had a Republican Mayor;
 
Milwaukee, WI (8th)... since 1908; (100 years)
 
Philadelphia, PA (9th)... since 1952; (56 years)
 
Newark, NJ (10th)... since 1907. (101 years)
 

*Einstein once said 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'
 
It is the disadvantaged who habitually elect Democrats -- yet are still disadvantaged.......

[bongaroo]

People for the most part are liberals because the dems have shinier, better produced commercials with more ambiguous slogans that better represent a feeling of helplessness and hopelessness followed by the promise of really cool free stuff.  The rest are victims of white guilt.

Then you have the ruling class of liberals.  These are the ones who are calling the shots and making the rules - because the lower echelons are too stupid to take care of themselves.  These are the liberals who travel across the country and world in private jets and fleets of stretch limos telling the great unwashed masses that they must curb their energy use.  These are the "do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do" liberals.  They are entitled to their lifestyle because they are smarter than you.

It's actually just a culture of entitlement and guilt - each one feeding off of the other; very unhealthy.

WRONG!

 

[sluggish]

WRONG!

 

Your eloquent rebuttal has made me see the error in my beliefs.





NOT!   

[bongaroo]

Plenty of level headed people have already given level headed responses. 

I figured a flat out and simple response to your drivel would be easier to understand.   

 

This thread was doomed from the getgo.

[DmonSlyr]

so give me a firm list of the changes that Obama wants better for America

I dont understand what kinda change he wants, for you democrats what are the changes Obama is gonna make thats gonna help our economy?

please list them so i can understand your side of the argument?