Why the Buff formation is the most unbalancing item in the game.

[CAP1]

They could've given the JU88 a 13mm dorsal gun (like HT did at first in WB), but instead there are two pee-shooters instead.

maybe in an update?

[lyric1]

If the speed and angle is giving the gunners a short, low% firing window, it is also giving YOU a short, low% firing window.

Look for some videos Challenge has posted on this topic I have seen film of a formation taken out with less than 40 rounds per plane.  With no hits from any gun on the bombers.

[CAP1]

This may seem kind of noobish here but


Usually if I get killed by Lusche when in buffs, I won't re-up in bombers back to that area again. The reason is that no need to re-up to same portion when he is going to get you and not possibly kill all 3.not noobish at all. it's you making an informed choice is all it is. lusche is very very good at what he does.  generally when i'm attacked in my buffs, i can pretty much remove important pieces of your aircraft...evenif i lose mine. lusche was the first that didn't allow me to get a single round in him during his attacks.

I upped B17's against Lusche before and he got all 3 of mine without taking a single hit from me. As a matter of fact I didn't even have a guns solution on him since he came from straight down. The only defense from the guy coming down like this, is to turn to get that guns on him. At this point then the good buff hunuter pulls back out and realigns (just what Lusche did) and come back after reaquiring advantage.

BTW this only worked a handful of times and I never really got a decent shot off on Lusche when this was attempted.

back to my point a good buff hunter will have no trouble taking out all 3 bombers even against the best of bomber pilots.

Want to know how to do it ask Lusche (trainer corp member)

[SD67]

zuii posted a film of a perfect pass on a set of lancs in his zeke.
All three dead in less than a second.

[Ack-Ack]

I can only say that even using the "perfect" setup with all the time in the world I still RTB a plane too damaged to go play with fighters after I "do my duty" on Buffs all too often, and my experiences are far from unique.

Then you're not doing it right.  It's been my experience (I am something like 50-1 against bombers of all types) that bombers are easy to shoot down as long as you use the proper tactics against them but YMMV.

ack-ack

[PFactorDave]

Given a careful measured approach, bomber formations are pretty easy to take out.  I think we can all agree to that.  But I think the crux of the issue is that the way that the game works now, it is very difficult to make that careful measured approach BEFORE the bombers have the chance to deliver their payoad.  Anybody can take the buffs out AFTER they have dropped, no hurry at that point.

All that said, I'm not certain what the solution would be.  The problem is that bombers aren't used in this game like they were in real life.  They don't travel for hundreds of miles, possibly passing over spotters along the way.  With the short warning distances in AH2, there just simply isn't time to get into position, most of the time.

Really, the flaw is more in the way that the maps are designed and the way that airfields are employed currently in game.

What if aircraft had to pass over several "spotter" locations on the way to any Base?  Maybe the Bombers would be visible on the map as long as they were over head of the spotter.  The spotter could even provide altitude and aircraft and directional type info.  But as soon as the planes are out of line of sight, the info vanishes from the map.

Something like this might give enough warning that a pilot paying attention to the spotter info well enough to get an earlier warning might have a better chance of intercepting the bombers.

It might also have the added benefit of discouraging NOE missions into undefended bases.

Just a thought.

[Chalenge]

If the speed and angle is giving the gunners a short, low% firing window, it is also giving YOU a short, low% firing window.

Thats right and since my entire aircraft is pointing where I want the bullets to be when they arrive its much easier for me to make delivery a success.

[Ack-Ack]

Thats right and since my entire aircraft is pointing where I want the bullets to be when they arrive its much easier for me to make delivery a success.

Yep, that's why when I make my pass I am diving at a 45 degree angle, nose pointing between the cockpit and nose.  My angle makes it extremely difficult for the gunners to track and when I fire, my rounds usually impact the cockpit or wing root area.  With the P-38's guns, not much can survive a solid burst to the wing root or cockpit area.


ack-ack

[Boxboy]

But there, is the problem.  That is no way to attack a buff.  I love it when guys try to fly up my 6 when in a bomber.  They are easy kills then.  But, to perk a formation?  No, leave it the way it is.

I get a MAJOR kick from this arguement, since in AH the buff is flying full max throttle and never slows down to drop his bombs or for any other reason.  The climbing fighter has NO chance to setup for anything BUT a six shot since by the time he gets there the speeding buffs have left him in trail.

Facts are simple when buffs were correctly modeled they were easy targets, as they were in the war, and no one wanted to fly them so adjustments were made, the adjustments are abit out of whack but not enough to warrant a major rewrite to fix it.

[Fugita]

First off, Tral you are a toolshedder

When I buff hunt, 110 with rockets 1K off their six. I love watching their wings fall off.

[uberslet]

But there, is the problem.  That is no way to attack a buff.  I love it when guys try to fly up my 6 when in a bomber.  They are easy kills then.  But, to perk a formation?  No, leave it the way it is.

i agree, if one is so stupid as to fly into your dead 6 , they deserve to die, like so many have posted before me in this thread. also, if you cant take the time to set up angles, or be patient enough to wait for them to get into their bombsight, you deserve to saddle up on the "dead 6" of the buffs and get chewed apart. when i do buffs i dont normally have a cannon to spare, so im stuck with .50's, however, you get your shot place right, and conistant, like the ing or engine, you can kill the buff easily. its not rocket sciencce to figure out how to effectivly kill buffs, and hopefully put a damper on their mission.


just my 2 cents, carry on Lads

[Kazaa]

Buffs are free victories in my book, unless they are being piloted by Dantoo of course. I think Bruv can agree with me on this one.

Just come in high, fast and try to avoid the 6 o'clock shot.

[Bruv119]

it's just like everything else in the game.  If you come across a well flown and gunned bomber who knows his stuff he can be very tricky to take down. 

Luckily 80% of bomber pilots in AH are of the free kill type (if they don't bail out before you get to them  ) , can't bomb worth a poop and are just making up numbers.

I think the bomber setup in AH is fair for both parties and I don't see a problem with it.

[999000]

 My experience tells me a good fighter pilot vs a good bomber pilot....the fighter pilot wins! and can make the good bomber pilot look silly!
<S> 999000

[NOT]

buffs are really not that hard to take out(unless that 1 particular ##s guy is flying them ). anyway, with the correct approach i can kill buffs 90+% of the time. if i get impatient i die. if i do it right, the buffs die. when i fly buffs, i usually die 90+% of the time if attacked. so to me the buffs are to weak and should be tuned up to accommodate me .




NOT