P38 Duel Throttle?

[EnIgMaSpItPiLoT]

   In real life you could turn the p38 tighter by throttling down one prop and it would make the opposite side flat turn over real fast. Bong used to use this tactic all the time. Is it possible to set up the throttles in the p38 to do this, By mapping the buttons on your controller or keyboard! If so I think it would be a great asset and and if not It would help the p38's maneuverability in this games and I hope aces high would think about it! Well P38 pilots let me know Thanks

Mercy

[Soulyss]

From I can gather flying the P-38 for awhile now is there are a few specific cases where having a dual throttle can help under certain circumstances.  I use variable throttle control on occasion, I mapped 3 buttons on my throttle, one selects engine #1, another selects engine #2 and the third selects both engines. 

To the best of my knowledge it does not make you turn any tighter.   

[EnIgMaSpItPiLoT]

     Now of course I've never flown a real p38 I'm just going off things Ive seen On T.v. and read in books. But yeah In real life it was supposed to help. But maybe in the real forces of nature things are possible that are not possible in the vurtual world.

[Krusty]

It does not help. Not like you describe. I have a throttle quadrant and fly with a different throttle for each engine. It's handy, and immersive, but it doesn't really grant you any advantages.

Oh, and I don't think Bong really used moves like that (at least, not often) because you had to throttle both all the way back then move them forward at the same time to avoid spins and other drawbacks. That means a delay and loss in power and in combat you don't want to wait. Probably was easier to not do that.

P.S. Using a throttle will definitely help in duels, but dual throttles won't make or break the outcome of the fight.

[EnIgMaSpItPiLoT]

      Well the temporary and controlled spin is what the maneuver is! I'd look it up its out there I'm sure u can find it on the internet! but hey Like I said it might not be possible in this game.

[Ack-Ack]

it's pretty much as Soulyss said in his post, there are only a very small amount of instances where a dual throttle will be of any benefit.  However, it does add a bit to the 'immersion' factor of the game but remember, it is not going to give you an edge over someone else that flies a P-38 with a single throttle or anyone else in a single engine plane. 


ack-ack

[Saxman]

It does not help. Not like you describe. I have a throttle quadrant and fly with a different throttle for each engine. It's handy, and immersive, but it doesn't really grant you any advantages.

Oh, and I don't think Bong really used moves like that (at least, not often) because you had to throttle both all the way back then move them forward at the same time to avoid spins and other drawbacks. That means a delay and loss in power and in combat you don't want to wait. Probably was easier to not do that.

P.S. Using a throttle will definitely help in duels, but dual throttles won't make or break the outcome of the fight.

Krusty,

I think I remember someone posting an account of McGwire doing this.

[Ack-Ack]

Krusty,

I think I remember someone posting an account of McGwire doing this.

It's stated in the P-38 flight manual when you throttle back on one engine and want to advance it again, you need to throttle back on the other engine and then advance them both together.  Otherwise you risk entering into a vicious, almost unrecoverable spin (at lower altitudes) from asymetric power. 

And as you noted Saxman, it's the widely held view of what caused McGuire to spin into the ground and died.


ack-ack

[Delirium]

As others have said, having individual throttle control for each engine does not help you turn tighter. For 97% of the time, having a 'toy' like this doesn't help you at all.

I've found only a few areas where it is helpful

1. Recovering a spin, with practice it will happen instantly.

2. Getting the nose over at the top, in fact is the only case where I've seen a real hammerhead performed in AH.

3. Last ditch manuvers, rudder 70% to one side, aileron 70% in the same direction and cut the opposing engine. It will cause you to fall out of the sky and you can recover fairly easily.

4. Increasing the rate you can move your nose around on the ground. Rudder one direction and cut the opposing engine, I have found that the toe brakes only slow it down and do not help.

I do disagree with AKAK on one point, I don't see much of a difference in chopping both throttles before reapplying. Most of the time, if I cut one engine and I need to reapply fast I will work through it with rudder and opposing engine controls. Maybe it was done in the real thing, but I don't see a benefit to doing it within AH. It just takes a little while to learn to recover quickly so you don't end up like McGuire.

[HAMMERR]

from what I have read in books this did not help the 38 turn faster but rather roll faster to the side without power. It seems that many people confuse this trick with a faster sustained turn rate which is I'm fact more a factor of the elevator deflection. Wing loading. Speed and the ability of the pilot. I'm reality this move was used to make for a very fast snap roll in the direction of the engine that had been retarded in power. Of course this was combined with aileron rudder and elevator in the same way a traditional snap roll is performed.

[Old Sport]

The other day I just happened to see Jeff Ethell's Roaring Glory vol. 6 about the P-38. At just after 17 minutes he said his dad was jumped by about twenty 109's and that he got away in his P-38 with the help of using asymmetrical power, low on the inside and high on the outside. Ethell said it helped the plane to "turn on a dime" but the comment came across as pretty anecdotal. He also said in the video that some Lightning pilots had been killed after an engine failed on takeoff and the plane suddenly rolled over onto the dead engine. I remember reading or seeing somewhere that pilots in single engine flight were warned never to turn into the dead engine. I don't think the AH P-38 is modeled nearly so dangerously when on one engine.

[Soulyss]

I think people are using the word "turn" in too generic a fashion.  It will not help in the traditional sense of a horizontal circle, however there is an anecdotal story in one of the issues of Flight Journal I have laying around here where they basically talk about going into a climbing turn to the right roping the 109 who has to fight torque then using power off the inside engine combined with rudder to perform what I think would be described as a hammer head where the plane rotates around it's center and the nose got point downhill again in a hurry. 

I haven't been able to quite mimic what I envision they are describing in AH yet, but there are a lot of more talented sticks out there than I and may be they have. 

The idea that the 38 was dangerous on one engine is largely a result of poor multi-engine training early in the war for fighter pilots.  The 38 had a minimum single engine speed if you had the engines at full power, below that and there wasn't enough aileron and rudder authority to counter act the torque, I believe it was around 120mph.  A properly trained pilot could save the aircraft if he lowered the nose slightly and reduced power on the good engine, then after building up sufficient speed circle around and make a landing. 

If you have 30-40 mins to kill you can head over to http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P38.html and watch the vid they have there, you'll need Realplayer or there's an app called "Real Alternative" I think, to watch them.  But they go over many emergency procedures in the video. 

[Delirium]

He also said in the video that some Lightning pilots had been killed after an engine failed on takeoff and the plane suddenly rolled over onto the dead engine. I remember reading or seeing somewhere that pilots in single engine flight were warned never to turn into the dead engine.

Sadly, Jeffrey Ethell died in his P38 after losing an engine.

http://www.avweb.com/news/safety/183014-1.html

I don't think the AH P-38 is modeled nearly so dangerously when on one engine.

Pilots had a fear of turning into the dead engine of a P38 but these were dismissed by Lockheed test pilots that traveled to combat units and did aerobatics on one engine. Losing an engine on take off was the most dangerous period, landing on one engine was practiced and even a training film was done by Lockheed to assist.

Check Soulyss's post above to see that film, it also has film of the P38 operating on one engine without difficulty. Besides, there are numerous occasions historically where P38 drivers would purposefully cut one engine to extend their range. The P38 is great in AH for the same reason, I can convert 1 minute of fuel into almost 16 minutes by using this method; kill one engine and set the other to 2200rpms/35inches.

[Tr1gg22]

It does not help. Not like you describe. I have a throttle quadrant and fly with a different throttle for each engine. It's handy, and immersive, but it doesn't really grant you any advantages.

Oh, and I don't think Bong really used moves like that (at least, not often) because you had to throttle both all the way back then move them forward at the same time to avoid spins and other drawbacks. That means a delay and loss in power and in combat you don't want to wait. Probably was easier to not do that.

P.S. Using a throttle will definitely help in duels, but dual throttles won't make or break the outcome of the fight.

I second that Krusty Bong was a BnZ guy as were most of our American aces.. Just didnt pay for those guys to get slow were talking real life or death

[Old Sport]

Pilots had a fear of turning into the dead engine of a P38 but these were dismissed by Lockheed test pilots that traveled to combat units and did aerobatics on one engine.

  The only skin I've ever made during 7 years of AH is YIPPEE, so yeah, I realize that the problem was mostly poor training.