Author Topic: Change engine damage modelling.....  (Read 386 times)

Offline eddiek

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Change engine damage modelling.....
« on: January 08, 2002, 04:20:00 AM »
I've visited with a couple WW2 veterans now who both said the same thing about when your engine(s) were damaged.
Rarely, if ever, did they continue to put out full power.  As it is now in AH, you get one of 4 things:
A: No engine damage.  'Nuff said

B: Engine oil hit.  Okay your oiling system is hit in some way.  As your oil pressure falls, those engine parts are going to start heating up.  You have a finite amount of time left to get your bird on the ground.

C: Engine coolant.  Pretty much the same as above.  I have found that if I extend and I have enough altitude, I can stretch it out by shutting down the engine and letting the coolant temps drop while I attempt to glide to a friendly base.  Starting the engine for 5 or 6 seconds sends the temps right back up, but I can extend far enough usually to set down at a friendly base if I watch the temperature.

D:  Engine hit.  The engine is dead.  Again, nothing more said, self explanatory.

What I propose is this:  Any engine damage should cause an immediate loss of full engine power.  Maybe you lose a percentage of your MAP, or the engine RPM falls.  Regardless, you are not gonna get full power from the powerplant.
Maybe add this as a nonspecific damage item that you can see when you hit CNTRL+D.
What I see this doing is reducing the # of planes you see zooming around in the arenas, trailing smoke or coolant, still getting full power and zooming up and down and around.  To me, it would add another element of realism to the game.  Other than the German ace Knocke, I have not heard of ANY pilot sustaining engine damage to his plane and continuing the fight.  It just was not possible.  The crate was in trouble and their mindset was getting the thing out of the fighting and trying to land her.  They could not engage in anything other than defensive moves anymore, as the engine would not allow them to do the things they would normally do if the engine were whole.
I think this would help the game.  The one who only want to go out and furrball still get to, but now they have to watch what they are doing more closely, cause if they get hit in the engine, they are not gonna be able to keep chasing or TnB.  The ones who plan their fights, set them up and then execute them will get the satisfaction of seeing the plane at a very minimum slow down and become less of a threat when they do score hits.  Nothing more frustrating than carrying out an attack, getting hits on the other plane, he trails smoke or coolant, yet can still run around til the engine seizes from lack of vital fluids.  And, BTW, getting 4 or 5 kills because he still has full power available to him.
Just my thoughts on this..........   ;)

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: eddiek ]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2002, 08:11:47 AM by eddiek »

Offline K West

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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2002, 09:01:00 AM »
Good thoughts too. And I agree. Hopefully it is in the works.

Westy

Offline popeye

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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2002, 11:00:00 AM »
(nevermind)

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: popeye ]
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Offline Regurge

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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2002, 12:13:00 PM »
How about adding the gun/compressibility shake when engine is damaged to simulate rough running/chunks of prop missing. It would at least make aiming more difficult.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2002, 12:38:00 PM »
Seems it would be pretty easy to impliment the loss<losing> of power if HTC were simply to tie it into the RPM and manifold pressure.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2002, 12:47:00 PM »
In WarBirds (back in the day) when you got hit in the oil, as the oil leaked out, the engine would cut out and each time it came back on it was a good amount less than before. Eventually the engine would die but since the power decreased then the performance decreased too.
-SW

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Offline lemur

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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2002, 03:29:00 PM »
IL2 has a great sound for engine burnout.

A really raspy metal-on-metal grating that gets louder and louder as the engine gets closer to seizing completely.

And model the various engine durabilities for cod's sake!

An air/oil cooled radial engine (p-47, 190) is a LOT more durable than an inline water cooled engine. Plenty of stories of entire cylinders being shot off of the radials and they just kept on running.

But once you lose coolant in a water cooled engine it's going to overheat & sieze pretty quickly.

I really think that once they model overheating in engines they can model everything else.

As coolant leaks out, the engine's ability to shed extra heat goes WAY down (to 'none' in short order)

As Oil leaks out, the engine generates more heat for any given power setting (and sheds a little less heat too.) At 'no oil' even idling the engine generates huge amounts of heat.

For air-cooled engines they ALWAYS shed heat (maybe even link this to alt/airspeed)

When engine temp reaches a critical point it starts taking damage.
When engine damage = 100 % the engine stops.
If engine temp reaches a FURTHER critical point it catches fire.

Once all this is modeled the game can either be set up to adjust your engine to the max safe speed (slow reduction in power) OR be set up so you have to manually lower your throttle or risk burning the engine out even faster.

In each case it should be acompanied by nasty grinding / banging noises from the engine.

~Lemur

Offline eddiek

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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2002, 04:41:00 PM »
<S> guys, thanks for the responses!    :cool:

Like I said, when your engine got hit, most of the time there was a loss of power.
I reread the story from the German pilot (I think I misspelled his name, it was Knoke, not Knocke, I think) and all he did was horse back on the stick and shoot down the P47 that had just mortally wounded HIS plane.  Pilot error on the part of the Jug driver I would say.  
Anyway, HiTech, what are the odds of us getting something like this added to the game?
Whatcha wanna bet some of the planes that have been getting a high percentage of the kills in AH see a dramatic decrease in kill %?  I say that because I see lots of guys continuing to fly and fight when they get hit, disregarding the damage, because they really don't care.
IF HT implements this, you will see a lot of guys augering or spinning in when the engine loses power and they try to continue the fight. Some of the hardcore guys will like it because it will take away some of the "Quakism", plus, it more closely represents the "realism" lots of us seek, or say we do.  
Engine hit=reduced power=limited fighting ability.......I like it!  :D

Offline Xjazz

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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2002, 05:57:00 AM »
Very good ideas!

Add to the list:
Long WEP running should cause some sort damage/power lose like in WB.

Offline popeye

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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2002, 11:16:00 AM »
"Long WEP running should cause some sort damage/power loss"

This has been discussed in detail.  The general concensus is that WEP itself would not damage the engine IN THE SHORT TERM.  It may require more maintenance on landing, but would not sustain immediate damage.

Or, something....

Having said that, I would like to see the "auto temperature monitor" function disabled.  Let the pilot watch the temp and reduce power when it gets too hot.  After all, Superfly and Nate worked hard to make those gauges...let's use 'em.    :)
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Offline eddiek

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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2002, 04:00:16 PM »


No other feedback?

Sheesh, with all the input on "realism", I would have thought more of the guys who want increased lifelike effects would have at least responded.....for or against.

Offline janjan

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2002, 12:54:24 AM »
Well, more detailed damage/engine behaviour is always welcomed.

Offline popeye

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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2002, 07:54:44 AM »
Eddiek, you might get more feedback if your subject line included the subject.  ;)
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Offline bigUC

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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2002, 06:51:56 PM »
Very good!  Hopefully HTC sees this one!
Kurt is winking at U!

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2002, 08:08:51 AM »
Great Idea I think.

How many times have you seen Spits, N1ks, LA7s, A6Ms, etc. endlessly turning and turning and shooting and shooting all the while blowing black smoke?

In most cases, damaged radiator/coolant on a non-radial A/C means 1 minute before the coolant is gone and then another 30 seconds until the engine overheats. So, if you do hit them, just extend away and let them burn out.

However, Oil damage takes 6 minutes before the engine quits, and it never looses power the whole time. Most furball dweebs only fight for 3 to 4 minutes before they get shot down, so they never see the damage effects.

HTC, please model decreased engine power/performance when the engine takes damage.