Author Topic: what do you fly in RL?  (Read 3637 times)

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2008, 11:49:28 AM »
My Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14......convincing wife to let me take flying lessons though, but doubt that will happen for a little while.

who says she has to know? :D
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Gixer

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2008, 06:12:20 PM »
it's MORE than worth the time and effort to get your PPL though.

good luck

Yes but the money? Anyone comes and asks me about doing a PPL (especially for helicopters) I seriously ask them if it's what they really want and reasons why. As it's seriously expensive CPL makes you unemployable and that's $70k gone for helicopters. Think any given weekend the local airfield is filled with young people doing their PPL which is fantastic if that's what you really want and/or have a career well planned out. But just as something to do because you think it's cool or fun is something best left for the rich.

Do the solo, get the certificate stick it on your wall and leave it at that, dream accomplished. Anything more just sucks up an enormous amount of cash.

Selling PPLs is their core business, and I get a little frustrated walking around the club and seeing all the young guys going for PPLs with dreams often over hyped by their instructors with future career in the airlines. To the instructor you are just another hour towards his own goals of a commercial job. If your lucky you will find a honest instructor who isn't in it for his own hours and future career.

If they say "your a natural" during or after your intro flight, it's just a sales line. They say that to everyone and anyone who sits down in a cockpit.

If you seriously want a career in aviation do it the smart way, study hard at school,complete a university degree in either maths or aero related subjects. Join the airforce and let the government pay for your training.

If you've missed out on the Air Force option for what ever reason, you'll still need the uni degree,work three jobs and take the instructor/small operator/big operator path. Though you'll need some serious $$$ and if your still hanging around the aero clubs at over 30 you might as well forget a commercial airline job.

I was lucky to do my training with a family friend and commercial operator for helicopters.  If I was to finish off my fixed wing PPL I'd get a small group of friends together, buy a cheap second hand Cessna and then find an instructor for the hours when you need it. That way you can take the little Cessna from PPL through to C-CAT and still have a fixed asset at the end of the training. For obvious reasons this isn't a smart option for helicopters.


<S>...-Gixer

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2008, 06:30:22 PM »
Yes but the money? Anyone comes and asks me about doing a PPL (especially for helicopters) I seriously ask them if it's what they really want and reasons why. As it's seriously expensive CPL makes you unemployable and that's $70k gone for helicopters. Think any given weekend the local airfield is filled with young people doing their PPL which is fantastic if that's what you really want and/or have a career well planned out. But just as something to do because you think it's cool or fun is something best left for the rich. well, i look at it this way. the types of people, in general that want to fly, are going to spend their money on SOMETHING, be it a PPL, a dragster, guns, hunting bows, cruises, etc.
 this being the case, if you're even remotly inclined, then it's worth it. i go up just to punch holes in the sky, and my wallet sometimes, other times i'll only go up if it's windy, as i REALLY enjoy the challenge of crosswind landings.
 as for the rotorwing endorsement? i WISH i could afford that. when i can, i most probably will. a friend runs a helicopter school here in south jersey. i've got a few hours on his simulator, and about an hour in a schweizer 300.


Do the solo, get the certificate stick it on your wall and leave it at that, dream accomplished. Anything more just sucks up an enormous amount of cash.actually, my renters insurance is 250 a year, club membership is 40 a month, and the c172 is about 95 an hour. the clup only charges what's on the hobbs. i flew to ocean city and had the plane out from 9am, didn't return till 10pm that night. it cost us 3 hours on the hobbs total. my friend and i split it, so not that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

Selling PPLs is their core business, and I get a little frustrated walking around the club and seeing all the young guys going for PPLs with dreams often over hyped by their instructors with future career in the airlines. To the instructor you are just another hour towards his own goals of a commercial job. If your lucky you will find a honest instructor who isn't in it for his own hours and future career. this is why i avoided young cfi's like the plague. i fly with a cfi who is an electronics engineer for l3 communications, and very high up in civil air patrol. he instructs purley for the enjoyment of seeing his students progress. proof is watching him spend an hour or more on the ground with students, and quite often he won't charge that time out as he should.

If they say "your a natural" during or after your intro flight, it's just a sales line. They say that to everyone and anyone who sits down in a cockpit.i never heard that line. i got......well, whaddya think? you like it, or not?     we all know what my answer was. :rofl

If you seriously want a career in aviation do it the smart way, study hard at school,complete a university degree in either maths or aero related subjects. Join the airforce and let the government pay for your training. now THIS is advice i should've followed in highschool......but i was young dumb, and invincible.....and knew much more than the people telling me that.

If you've missed out on the Air Force option for what ever reason, you'll still need the uni degree,work three jobs and take the instructor/small operator/big operator path. Though you'll need some serious $$$ and if your still hanging around the aero clubs at over 30 you might as well forget a commercial airline job.

I was lucky to do my training with a family friend and commercial operator for helicopters.  If I was to finish off my fixed wing PPL I'd get a small group of friends together, buy a cheap second hand Cessna and then find an instructor for the hours when you need it. That way you can take the little Cessna from PPL through to C-CAT and still have a fixed asset at the end of the training. For obvious reasons this isn't a smart option for helicopters.


<S>...-Gixer



sir, my intentions are not to question you, or contradict you. i'm simply throwing my outlook in there.

<<S>>
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Yippee38

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 316
      • http://www.cutthroats.com
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2008, 08:40:16 PM »
Gixer, your estimation is about 10 years behind the times.  It's not hard to get into the airlines anymore.  It's no more stable, and it's damn expensive, but you can do it WAY easier than you used to be able to.  I know guys who are now working at a regional airline who had never flown 3 years ago.

Offline Gixer

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2008, 11:14:39 PM »
I know guys who are now working at a regional airline who had never flown 3 years ago.

Yes and how many hours did they and aircraft ratings before they got a foot in the door? We all know someone who has made it to regional prop 10 years ago and today.


<S>...-Gixer

Offline Yippee38

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 316
      • http://www.cutthroats.com
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2008, 11:25:26 PM »
About 500 hours.  Commercial, Instr., Multi.  I know guys who did it in less than 300.

I got in to, what I consider, the top regional with 1000 total time, 100 multi, commercial, multi, instr..

And we're both flying jets.  He's in the ERJ.  I'm in the CRJ.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:27:46 PM by Yippee38 »

Offline AKHog

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2008, 11:27:18 PM »
Well even though people have done that, I still don't think its normal. Not in the big picture that I have seen at least. I guess if you already have degree in some semi-related field, have enough money and time to put life on hold and get it all, it could happen, but I don't think its the normal.

But Gixer is right, if you are a student wanting to fly as a profession, I think the best advice is to get a degree in some semi-related field (different enough to fall back on if you can't fly in the future) and work your bellybutton off to get into flight school in the military. If the military is not an option buying the Cessna to build time is also excellent advice. For the amount I spent on rentals I could have double the total time right now. The problem is the math only works out like that if you have it from near the beginning of training, which is a big scary up front cost for a beginner. And I'll say it again, if you really want to fly just for fun and don't have a money tree in your garden, there are much more cost effective ways to go about it than general aviation.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:31:40 PM by AKHog »
The journey is the destination.

Offline Yippee38

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 316
      • http://www.cutthroats.com
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2008, 11:42:16 PM »
Well even if you know multiple people that have done that, it still does not make it the norm. Not in the big picture that I have seen at least. I guess if you already have a 4 year degree in some semi-related field, have enough money to stop working for 6 months and get all your ratings, then work for minimum wage for years while you build hours, it could be done. There are people who have done it though.

Negative.  Last year (before fuel prices went through the roof), the HIGHEST minimums that a regional required was 1000 total time and 100 multi.  A few were hiring with just commercial, instrument, and multi ratings; no minimum hour requirements.  I'm not talking about multiple people.  I'm talking about thousands who got hired in the last few years.

You're right though.  It's expensive and not easy because of that.  However, you can get your degree and fly at the same time.  Of course, that works best if you're just graduating high school.  However, if you get your commercial, instrument and multi ratings, you are more than 1/2 way there.  Most regionals were giving interviews at 500 or 600 hours total time with 100 multi hours last year.  I suspect that next year we will see the same thing.

Flight instructing does not pay well.  You will either have lots of students and very little pay (my situation), or pretty decent pay, and very few students.  However, right when I got hired, the school I was teaching at could not find enough instructors.  Pilots were graduating from college aviation programs and going right into the regionals.  It's not that way now, but it will be that way again very soon.  What I'm trying to say is, when the economy recovers, you may never need to flight instruct.  Get hired by the lowest mins airline around, and in six months move up to a good company.

Is a career in the airlines a stable career?  Hell no.  If you do it, will you every get furloughed?  I'd count on it.  Majoring in something besides flying is a great insurance policy.  However, if you choose companies carefully, you can minimize your risk.  Save money.  Plan for it.  You'll get through it.

I spent 13 years in another career.  I hated every day of it.  Now, I love my job.  I haven't made this little money since I was about 19 years old (I'm in my 40's now).  However, I love my job.  I should be making more than what I was at my old job in less than 5 years.  Then, my earnings will outpace my old career easily.

It's not easy.  It costs a hell of a lot.  It's also a great career (best, part-time job in the world).  It's worth every cent I spent to get here.  It's also not as hard to do as it was when I was graduating high school.  Hell, it's not like it was 5 years ago.  If somebody's passionate about flying, and can somehow scrape together the money to get through the training, DO IT!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:44:50 PM by Yippee38 »

Offline AKHog

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2008, 12:01:53 AM »
(reply to yippee directly above)

Sorry yippee I edited down my post while you were quoting me and replying. I guess my experience is dated, I was talking about 5-6 years ago when I was last really looking at regional hiring numbers. It is probably easier now.

There is still no way around the fact that it is expensive as hell to get into, with very little monetary payback for a long time. I don't even think I'd ever want to fly airlines or even regional, so I'm looking at even less return. You are right though, there is nothing like doing what you love for a living. I had a little taste of that this summer which is why I'm excited to try and make this work as a career again. Just figuring out where to go from here is the hard part.
The journey is the destination.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2008, 03:31:42 AM »
.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 03:43:19 AM by Golfer »

Offline Curlew

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2008, 03:36:56 AM »
I fly this:

jk


Irl I fly the canvas, yep I am a huge sailor, lot of professional large boat and tallship time, here is the curlew, my last ship, 82' Alden Schooner, speant 3 months on her

It is I, Ens. Pulver! And I have just thrown your palm tree overboard!
Quote from: Helm
The best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Callsign---Curlew

Offline Spatula

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2008, 04:06:58 AM »
Started my PPL when i was about 18 in Warriors and a Cesna 152. Only got a couple hours done. Now, i fly RC gliders (slope soaring) - not quite as much fun, but crashing it is no big deal...
Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assault Group

Offline Yippee38

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 316
      • http://www.cutthroats.com
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2008, 07:08:37 PM »
Just figuring out where to go from here is the hard part.

Just don't let that hold you back.  Keep working toward a career in aviation and network with everybody you see at the airport (and even away from the airport).  You never know who might hire you to fly them around.

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2008, 09:27:19 PM »
I fly this:
(Image removed from quote.)
jk


 yep I am a huge sailor



Like this huge?


1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline abc123

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: what do you fly in RL?
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2008, 09:54:39 PM »
Opps forgot to add mine :o

About an hour and a half in a 152, and .7 in a zodiac.  Loved the zodiac sooo sooo much.  Looking forward to actually starting flight lessons sometime within the next month/ month and a half.
Tree: 73 Myself:  0