RL example of Lag roll + E-fight!

[Yenny]

I was bored at work so I surfed youtube ! I found a very good video that demonstrate how the lag roll and E fight were used back in WWII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EzXdSN9agg&feature=related

I love flying and all that but I like the realistic side of thing more then just go up get an F4U that can do things that it shouldn't be able to do and abuse it. I like tactics that were used in RL more then just some crazy tactic that was adapted just to suit AHII flying style. I mean I love tnb w/ Agent360 and all it's fun as hell, but I prefer not to get into that type of fighting unless I have to or feel like to!. Which why sometime I use tactics that people get pissed off such as E fighting  . Which I think it's all valid fighting style depending on the air plane. I like to max my plane performance in a fight where the lil 100 feet/s or 40 mph faster will mean getting shot down or not.

Some folks say that it's the pilot not the plane. To me that's BS, no matter how good a pilot is, when he goes up vs another pilot with equal skill that flys a better plane. He will have a hard time getting the advantage. The pilot in the better plane will always use his advantage and not let the one in the lower performance plane take the lead. People claiming they can outturn/manuever an La-7 while flying a D-9, I've yet to see. You know who you are! when you can do that get me, I wanna learn too!

Here was a vid that I got flame for, because I used my D-9 advantage over the La-7 in a 1 v 1. We merged at about 8K, I took the La-7 above 10K after the merge. I was never farther then 2K away on the merge from the La-7. The fight was about 1 min 30 secs. All I did was using my D9 engine power to rope the La-7. A valid RL tactic. Which totally got me flamed for a good 20 pages =p. Damn me for not tnb w/ an La-7 in a 1 v 1 situation! I think I put the D-9 to its max climbing performance vs the La-7. Well I knew the D-9 could out climb the La-7 above 10K which was why I just spiral cimb and bait the la-7 on my tail, making him think he should have the shot.

http://files.filefront.com/FW+190D9+v+LA7+0000ahf/;10033213;/fileinfo.html

Again it's totally retarded how other people who think they are better then other player trying to impose their playin style on other peeps. Of course forum bashing etc. I've seen a lot of spits and F4U pilots talking smack on 200 when they run into a 190 that will E fighting them. In my head I'd just say, damn if that guy only fly something other then EZ mode plane then he has the right to complain. Most 190 pilot fly its for historical reason. I mainly fly LW birds, 95% of all my sorties are in 190s and 109s. I know these birds are a lot harder to fly and they don't offer as much as the other planes do but hey I love LW birds so I stick with them. I'll use their advantage whenever I can. Which why a lot of time in 190 I will BnZ, In 109s though I'll tnb it all day long because it sux at BnZ. That's just how I use my plane to its advantage.

I'm totally against take a plane up and just fly til you're out of ammo/gas and die. What's special bout that I can do that anyday, I think making it home is where the challange is at. Making other plane goes boom is easy, making it out and bring your bird home is the hard part. Of course also not being timid while doing that. BnZ or TnB it's both very hard to bring the bird home. Usually try to go and land even if I only got 2-3 kills. It's just more rewarding and fun for me then just suicide it and get another bird. Well back to work for me =/

/rant on !

[Chalenge]

It cant be accurate! The P51s could out turn the 109s and out run them! It must be anti-axis bias! 

[Wreked]

Just read this with interest Yenny and of course you are absolutely right about the fighting tactics for the 190. It's nick name among the WWII airforces was the "Burther Bird" - it would swoop down from a high level and in one overpowering gun run destroy it's victims in seconds. Then climbing back up to it's high perch to reconoiter out another pigeon to pounce on. Classic Boom 'n Zoom!!

Regarding the La7 - late war Luftwaffe doctrine ordered FW190's not to engage La's below 5km (approx 15k). They were just too superior below that level. Kinda hard to do that with current play.

I understand your comments regarding "trash talk"  here - it's the old war between arcade/sports players and historical players. All ya can do is ignore their whinning and move on holding your head high. WE are indeed the PURE of HEART holding to our conviction to fly it like it was meant to be!!  (OK a little chest thumping here - heheheh)

I suspect very few of those who complain about standard Luftwaffe 190 fighter manauvers know much about what it excells at and it's limitations. I certainly don't get upset when I see Spits involved in TnB and trash em to stop and fight in ways that will guarantee their destruction. Spits tended to fight in the horizontal - 190's in the vertical.

It's an argument that has no solution and won't go away for some - they feel it is their right to insist EVERYONE fly in ways that did not happen in RL.

My view - Fight YOUR plane as you see best fit and let others do the same - respectfully.

...just MHO - Safe Skys

cheers eh!

[Shuffler]

Since Hitech says this game was not designed as a WW2 Simulation there is no problem with most not flying at 20 or 30k. Many folks in AH are history buffs. Many just want to fly a plane that most will never be able to fly in RL.

[Wreked]

Since Hitech says this game was not designed as a WW2 Simulation there is no problem with most not flying at 20 or 30k. Many folks in AH are history buffs. Many just want to fly a plane that most will never be able to fly in RL.

Maybe Hitech should change the front page of his web site then : WELCOME TO THE  INTERNTS PREMIER WWII COMBAT EXPERIENCE!

If what you say is correct then at the least it could be viewed as false advertising - however I would prefer to believe that you misunderstood or are mistaken. I wouldn't like to think I've been duped out of my money.

...just MHO eh!

***edit - just so ya know - I'm increadibly happy with the level of "simulation" here  - beats all others out there - just have a concern about the ongoing squabble : "My Way - no My Way" bashing that goes on - cheers eh!

[gyrene81]

Since Hitech says this game was not designed as a WW2 Simulation there is no problem with most not flying at 20 or 30k. Many folks in AH are history buffs. Many just want to fly a plane that most will never be able to fly in RL.

You can't be serious...did Hitech happen to say exactly what it was designed as considering the WWII theme?


<<<---military history buff.



Yenny, I stumbled across that video a couple weeks ago, very cool. And you got flamed for pulling such tactics??? 

[Vudak]

Yenny, we've talked about this before, but, again...

If you want to fly a 190 with historical tactics, making sure you have all the cards, and making the bad guy fight your fight, and you have FUN, then GREAT!

But don't ever, ever, ever expect people to be that impressed.

If you're cool with that, enjoy! But if you were really ok, why would you make this post?

[Rebel]

Guys, guys....if everybody flew like it was WW2 (i.e. you getting shot = it actually hurting and stuff), it'd be boring and/or frustrating as hell! 

Some guys get off on stuff like that.  Back in the day it was considered the gold standard.  In WB's we had guys who had streaks in the 100's, and they weren't called losers or timid at all, they were considered some of the best sticks in the game. 

Nowdays it all seems to be about "the fight"- but not only that, there are those who expect a P51 to turn n burn with a spit XVI- which ain't gonna happen. 

There's a line between flying historically, and flying to your a/c strengths/weaknesses, and all to often that gets blurred into obscurity. 

Just because that Thunderbolt will hang out a mile over your head and wait for you to look the other way doesn't make him a "skilless tard". 

This is the oldest debate in the book, and it will continue until the ending of the earth.  There are those who just see it as cartoon airplanes and pew pew pew, and others who see it as a recreation of the greatest air battle known to mankind and will treat their virtual life as their own. 

Different strokes for different folks.

[Vudak]

Nowdays it all seems to be about "the fight"- but not only that, there are those who expect a P51 to turn n burn with a spit XVI- which ain't gonna happen. 

You have to admit though, when you pull that off, it's a rush

Fighting your fight & winning = fishing for Panfish (good, consistent fun!)

Fighting their fight & winning = fishing for lunker Pike (awesome, yet rarer fun!)

A good mix of both keeps you sane, IMO.

[Wreked]

Vudak check the date of Yennys post - last year - seeing it today for the 1st time and seeing he is still active here I  posted my comments here with some background information and a show of support for his statements.

Rebel - yep - could use more attitude like yours. I've never understood some peoples necessity of speaking down/belittling others. 

cheers eh!

[Vudak]

Vudak check the date of Yennys post - last year - seeing it today for the 1st time and seeing he is still active here I  posted my comments here with some background information and a show of support for his statements.

Rebel - yep - could use more attitude like yours. I've never understood some peoples necessity of speaking down/belittling others. 

cheers eh!

  you got me! I'm very surprised this thing didn't take off to 20+ pages.

It's not always speaking down, Wreked.  It's just the name of the game.  If you were flying in a zeke, what would impress you more: the Corsair that employs historic tactics and shoots you down, or the Corsair that breaks every rule and shoots you down?

Not saying one's right and one's wrong.  If you have fun, do as you wish.  I just think part of the problem comes from historic types feeling they don't get proper recognition (or don't like the editorial slant of the recognition they do receive )

[moot]

It's a false dichotomy to pretend there's no challenge in flying balls out VS making it home.  The two are apples and oranges.  You can just as well fly "suicidally" and still make it home.  You could just as well pretend that flying historically is lacking any challenge since, when it's done right, you face zero peril, zero danger, zero risk.  Everything happens like clockwork and you could arguably let a robot do the flying for you.

Neither one (defined correctly) is superior or inferior.

It's an argument that has no solution and won't go away for some - they feel it is their right to insist EVERYONE fly in ways that did not happen in RL.

Strawman.

You can't be serious...did Hitech happen to say exactly what it was designed as considering the WWII theme?

The Main Arenas aren't WWII. They're air combat with the machine actors of WWII.  As he put it most recently: "no fight, no fun".

[Motherland]

You can't be serious...did Hitech happen to say exactly what it was designed as considering the WWII theme?

I don't really want to take the time and dig up the quote, but he's said something to the affect of 'it's an MMO with accurately modeled WWII vehicles'.

I also very much enjoy learning about military history, but I don't fly as conservatively as I would in real life in the main arenas. It's just not as fun that way.

"cv isn't the only answer"

Boxboy, you make the assumption there is a problem in your first statement, level bombers was not a tactic used. And continue to with "The only answer" which also implies a problem.

Not to jump on you, but could it be that there really is not a problem?

As we have said, this is not a sim of WWII. It is a game/sim using WWII equipment.

Your request of wanting to eliminate level bombing of ships because it was not done very often in WWII is trying to simulate WWII, not the equipment.

HiTech

[R 105]

Maybe HT should take at look at that U-Tube clip and rethink their P-51 modeling. The P-51 in Aces High may very well be the most under modeled plane it the game.

[Motherland]

Maybe HT should take at look at that U-Tube clip and rethink their P-51 modeling. The P-51 in Aces High may very well be the most under modeled plane it the game.

Yup, HT should look at the History Channels research and graphics department for modeling the P51.

I'm curious as to how that video suggests that the Mustang is significantly under-modeled. Have you ever flown the Mustang (in game of course) over 20,000'?