tell me your veiws on this

[bigrich]

a P-47D-11 razorback is returning to base escorting a flight of B-17s with other 47's when a pack of 109&190's appear out of no where the P-47's don't know they're there one 190 starts to dive on a 47.then the battle begins.....15 P-47's vs 25 109's & 190's 109G-6 model and 190A-8 model both with pilots from the Russian front the 47 pilots are brand new recruits...tell me who has the advantage and describe the outcome   

[glock89]

A B-29 drop the nuke and kill every one. 

[bigrich]

A B-29 drop the nuke and kill every one. 

you ruined it

[glock89]

you ruined it

Not the best at story telling.

[Anaxogoras]

I don't think the 190A-8 would be a contemporary of the P-47D-11, would it?

[bigrich]

yes most squads that had the 47D-11 faced the A-8 on occasions and the 109s of course

[Motherland]

I don't think the 190A-8 would be a contemporary of the P-47D-11, would it?

Somewhere there's a list of service dates for aircraft we have in game but I can't find it.
I always thought that the D11 was a 1942-43 fighter that was being phased out by the end of 1943, around the time the 190A8 was being put into service IIRC, and that the D11 would be more a contemporary of the A4, A5, and A6. But I don't really know of sure.

Based on the situation you described the Luftwaffe pilots had a numbers advantage, altitude advantage, and experience advantage (I'm assuming 'from the Russian Front' is supposed to mean that the German Pilots are highly experienced), and are making a surprise attack so IMO the USAAF pilots would be probably destroyed with little losses for the Germans.

[glock89]

So who going to tell the story? 

[bigrich]

yes but the 47's can soke up damage but not that much

[Motherland]

yes but the 47's can soke up damage but not that much

It would depend on the aircraft. In the situation you described the German aircraft would be part Reichsverteidigung (Reich Defense) unit and may partially or wholly consist of more heavily armed aircraft (like Sturm 190's with 30mm outboard cannons or 109G6 U4's or R6's with a Mk108 hub gun or gondolas respectively). No matter how the German aircraft were equipped they would probably make short work of the Jugs. They were not invincible and a single well placed burst would easily cripple the aircraft, especially if the German aircraft was heavily armed.

I've actually read a similar situation where II/JG11 (one of the more successful RVG Gruppen) consisting of 20 (+/- 2-3... a Gruppe would usually consist of 40+ aircraft but JG11 took very heavy casualties throughout the war) 109's jumped a group of 40-60 Mustangs (going off of memory I don't remember well) from the sun and destroyed many for not many losses.

[bigrich]

yes the Germans would cut through the jugs like butter even if they where the 47n model but the 47's would put up a good fight and so would the bombers even though they're probably low on ammo 

[Motherland]

yes the Germans would cut through the jugs like butter even if they where the 47n model but the 47's would put up a good fight and so would the bombers even though they're probably low on ammo 

I doubt it. Any of the Jugs would try to get their arses back to England as soon as they realized what was going on if they were smart.

[bigrich]

yeah they probably would've hauled arse to the clouds for cover and left the 17's to fend for themselves

[Motherland]

I've actually read a similar situation where II/JG11 (one of the more successful RVG Gruppen) consisting of 20 (+/- 2-3... a Gruppe would usually consist of 40+ aircraft but JG11 took very heavy casualties throughout the war) 109's jumped a group of 40-60 Mustangs (going off of memory I don't remember well) from the sun and destroyed many for not many losses.

I just remembered I've already copied this story from 'I Flew for the Fuehrer' and posted it on the boards. Without further adieu,

'3rd March, 1944
The Americans attack Hamburg. Specht cannot fly, and I am in temporary command of the Gruppe. Our original forty aircraft have now been reduced to eighteen. These I take into the air.
Over Hamburg I prepare to attack a small formation of Fortresses. My eighteen crates are 5,000 feet above them. Just as I am about to dive, I observe, about 3,000 feet below and to the left, a pack of some sixty Mustangs. They cannot see us, for we happen to be directly between them and the dazzling sun.
This is a magnificent opportunity!
I throttle back to allow the enemy pack to get a little way ahead of us. Wenneckers draws alongside, waving and clasping his hands in delight. For once we are in a position to teach them a real lesson, but I must be careful not to dive too soon. They have not spotted us yet. After them!
In a practically vertical dive we hurtle into the midst of the Yanks, and almost simultaneously we open fire. We take them completely by surprise. In great spirals the Mustangs attempt to get away. Several of them are in flames before they can reach the clouds. One literally disintegrates under fire from my guns.
Yells of triumph echo over our radio.
In the evening I receive the report from Division that the wreckage of no fewer than twelve Mustangs had been found in map reference sectors Caesar Anton four and seven.
There is only one drop of sorrow to tinge the general rejoicing. Methuselah has not returned. Several of the pilots saw a Messerschmitt 109 without wings going down. What has become of Methuselah?'



Methuselah had bailed safely and survived, albeit injured.

[Anaxogoras]

I love it: stack all of the factors to one side's favor, and then deny that they would win.