ostwind vs strat

[MrLars]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Here is a quite personal story to me, about how effective AAA weapons can be to infantry.

In 1968, my Uncle was a airframe mechanic at the main US airbase in Saigon. I don't know the correct spelling but its pronounced "Ton-Sin-nute".

During the infamous Tet offensive in 68 most of the airbase was overun by the NVA following a rocket and mortar bombardment. Now remember that alot of the guys there were airforce personnel, not combat marines or Army rangers.

He said that they had to pull back to one end of the runway and rally around a quad .50 AAA emplacement (just like the M16), when the NVA started using human wave attacks to finish off the defenders.

That Quad .50 emplacement, broke the back of the attack, inflicting extremely heavy casulties on the enemy.

He said it was scariest, and most sickening thing he has ever seen. A pure death machine. But he was DAMN glad it was there, or he would be dead today.

During Nevada Eagle we used a trailer mounted Quad-50. Nothin' better to clear a jungle line of snipers. The crew often loaded tracers every 3 rounds instead of every 5...quite the light show at night  

Lars

[eskimo]

The Ostwind should be able to protect Panzers and M-3s at spawn points.
 
It's ability to hose buildings is a bit great though.  As far as killing ack goes, I have killed ack with an M-3, beyond the acks range.  Osty should be able to do the same.

Gunners should also be killable and woundable from vertical fighter attack.

eskimo

[Jigster]

I tried to address everything, but seems people only saw what they wanted  

Key point: We have no infantry (other then troops, easy to kill with anything since they march like soldier-mcnuggets.)

AAA has it's repective use in both roles.

If the 37mm Flak is right, then the 75mm Pak 48 is wrong. If the Pak 48 is right, then the 37mm Flak is wrong.

They make bigger guns for a reason when it come to the ground war.

I said it before and I'll say it again...the US M-19 "Duster" ...double 40mm pom-pom style self-proppelled ack (On the M-18 chassy...extremely fast when it needs to be)

The first perk armor in AH!

- Jig

Btw I've gotten to fire off lives in the US quad trailer mount before  

[Fishu]

Ostwind takes big buildings down easier than PZ-IVh...
This should be fixed for PZ-IVh...

I think the problem lies there how AH system counts damage on the buildings.
It counts hits into building as one and same spot, where ever you fire and therefore does not give the same bonus as it would with planse where blast effect of one hit makes more effect.

Ie. against planes, if you hit with one 1 .50 caliber, it does not have big blast effect, but when you hit with 20mm or 30mm, it has a blast effect that might even effect on nearby parts some more or some less.

But when you'll shoot the building, it does not count the blast effect of invidual hit into that ONE spot.
So, it counts hits more like bullets would have some certain amount of damage points they cause.
Ie. .50 caliber is 1 points, 20mm is 3 points, 30mm is 6 points, 37mm is 10 points and 75mm is 25 points..
but 37mm can unload much more points into the building than 75mm in a shorter period of time.
But..... if we would think about real life, what would one 75mm hit do for the spot it hits against 37mm, it would be quite big difference, with its bigger blast radius.

So.. try get some sense of that, thats what I figure to make ostie better field scrapper than IV H. (and range has no matter.. same power)

HTC should model kinetics and invidual hits blast effect on buildings instead of having certain amount of damage caused by each direct hit.

[Graywolf]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
I don't know where you guys think that strafing the turret out of comission is hard to do currently. Its not.

In fact, most of my Ostie missions end after someone has strafed me with MG's or light cannons and totally disabled the gunner/gun, with the rest of the vehicle perfectly unharmed. Then I .ef and end the mission, with a ditch.

The reason most of you don't realize this (unless you drive the Ostie much yourself) is that yes, you strafed out the gunner, but the gunner blew you into little bits on the same pass, and your cartwheeling into terra firma without a wing.

Think about it. Effective Range of 37mm is greater than effective range of .50's or 20mm.

It all comes down to who shot the straightest in the gun duel.

The turret on the Ostwind is quite vulnerable to MG fire.

Not always true. I can make enough passes on armour in the Typhoon (first one dropping bombs, subsequent ones using cannon) to have to land and rearm (sometimes 3 times) before I get careless and get hit. And it can take multiple pases with quad 20mm (and I use a mostly vertical, barrel-rolling approach) to do any significant damage to an Ostwind.

In fact it's often more effective to use the same approach you would use on a panzer, low and from the rear (making sure someone else is distracting it) and just blow the whole damn thing up.

On a plus point this profusion of ground vehicles has improved my dive bombing no end  

[Westy]

 I just found evidence that the Ostwind was a copy of an FW-190. I read on the "Onion" that in 1943 a Wehrmacht engineeerr saw the guns on the FW-190 and said  "Holy shieSS, mount that bad bellybutton baby on a tracked undercarriage and you got a Weinerschnitazle beater!".   So they got rid of the wings, modified the fuselage till it was essentially gone, re worked the tail so it look like an engine radiator and modified the undercarriage to so the oleos and ruber tires were tanks tracks. Oh! And they used slightly different guns. Now it might take a little leap of logic, but any loyal UberAlles type can "see" without  ANY shadow of a doubt that the FW-190 is in that design!! You'd have to be blind not to!!

  -Westy

 (trying to hijack this topic cause?? Just because    )

[Downtown]

During the Korean war the U.S.M.C used the M-16 with the 4 .50Cal machine guns almost exclusively as an anti personnel weapon.

It was quite effective at destroying Human Wave attacks launched by the North Korean/Chinese Army.

Also, the first serious offensive the Poles managed to launch against the Germans at the start of World War Two was broken up by a German AAA unit that turned their 88s against the advancing Polish Infantry.

The Germans used the 88's for everything in WWII, more than just anti-aircraft, and definetly as Anti Armor.

When the U.S. Entered the war and put the 105 one a track, it started the first serious threat to the 88's.

After all the reading I have done, it seems that the U.S. loved to call in Artillery as soon as they met the slightest resistance.  In Stephen Ambrose's "Citizen Soldier" he interviews a German Soldier who said that when the Germans were advancing and they met resistance, the knew not to call for Artillery support, they wouldn't get it, it was for pre-assualt bombardments, or use against fixed defences, or to try and break up an assault.

He complained that if the U.S. Infantry came upon a Hitler Youth with a pocket knife, they called for artillery.

------------------
"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
 
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.

[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 10-31-2000).]

[sling322]

Geez...whats next?  Are we gonna lobby to remove bombers from the lineup too because of the "ackstars" out there that spawn and use a B-26 as a defensive AA gun on the ground?  I swear, everytime you guys dont get things that go your way you whine about it forever.  I am just wondering what the next whine will be about if HTC gives in on this one and weakens the Ostie for ya.

[Midnight]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Ostwind takes big buildings down easier than PZ-IVh...
This should be fixed for PZ-IVh...

But when you'll shoot the building, it does not count the blast effect of invidual hit into that ONE spot.

HTC should model kinetics and invidual hits blast effect on buildings instead of having certain amount of damage caused by each direct hit.

I agree. It doesn't seem like there is a big advantage for the HE rounds over the APs or the Ostwind's 37mm. A HE round detonating inside a small buildikng would do extreme damage when compared to greater numbers of 37mm API rounds. And also consider the impact force required to detonate the rounds. AP rounds usually go through non-hardened targets without causing much more damage than an entry and exit hole.

Even when you use the HE vs the AP in the Panzer, you don't really see the difference between the two. They both make the same impact explosion and sound.

I know it won't be for a while, but it would be nice to see the AP rounds just punch through something, and the HE rounds actually look like they are making a big explosion like HE rounds would do.

Midnight

[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 10-31-2000).]

[CHAPPY]

I drop torpedo's on the town seems to be more successful.

[Husky01]

Please explain why you bumped a ten year old thread?

[Dadsguns]

 

[waystin2]

Please explain why you bumped a ten year old thread?

So we all can see Batman!

[TEXAS20]

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[Masherbrum]

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