Author Topic: The spiral climb  (Read 2149 times)

Offline PFactorDave

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 09:19:26 PM »
This isn't something that I have yet learned to use.  As it happens, my favourite ride is the Ki84, which would seem to be a pretty good candidate to utilize a climbing spiral.

I was wondering if anyone has any film of this technique in action?  I'd be really interested in seeing somebody who knows how to use it put it into action.

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Offline Sonicblu

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 03:20:09 PM »
Thanks for all the help much appreciated.
Sorry for late response been away for a few weeks.
S all

Offline Bosco123

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 03:33:34 PM »
I use is alot when I have a diving con, on my six. I begin with a typical, left or right turn, the sicisor up, back to the right or left. I then go back up to the opposite direction and keep going up in the same direction, but thats if the con is still chasing on my six. Once I reach my peak, I pull some down and keep doing that, or depending on what I'm flying, I pull them into a vertical siscor.
They usually only get one shot in the vertical climb, just whe your going into it. They still have enough E to turn with you, and they are tring to get back up into the BnZ. They usally aren't looking for what you are about to do, but its still a good snapshot on someones wing.
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Offline DamnedRen

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 05:46:17 AM »
It might be useful to understand the just what you are looking at when you perform a spiral climb with the enemy on your 6.

There are a lot of visual clues which provide you with positional awareness in relation to your opponent. For instance, the 3 types of pursuits allow you to compare your nose position with that of the enemy. We'll use the gunsight as reference point.
In pure pursuit you put your gunsight on the turning planes tail. This allows you to maintain the same distance and speed in relation to the dude you are pursuing. In lead pursuit, you may put your gunsight on the turning dudes nose or even a plane length or more ahead of him to increase the closure rate. In lag pursuit, you may place your gunsight either on a point behind him or perhaps a little above his tail feathers. Lag pursuit requires you merely ease some of the G pressure off the stick. Ok, 3 different situations with 3 different views although you are using the gunsight as an alignment tool.

<exit back to the spiral climb with the enemy on your 6>

There have already been lots of good info posted here on the subject. Energy or speed differences, zoom climb ability, and how some folks go about their personal tactics to accomplish it have all been touched on and good points, too.  I will add the visual clues you may want to be seeing as you perform the maneuvers. To do this I will touch on the 3-9 line.

The 3-9 line is actually numbers on the clock as it relates to your plane. It's easy to understand when you hear "break hard, there's someone on your 6". Bullets zipping by your canopy brings home what "your 6" is quite dramatically.  Well your 3-9 line is merely views to the left and right of seat in the cockpit, 3 being your right side view and 9 being your left side. Simple, right? In fact, most folks are saying, "I knew that...it's nothing new". Ok, let's put it to use to determine the positional difference between your plane and that dude out there who's trying to kill you. Or to put it more simply, just who's behind who? I'll bet you've flown around with some other dudes in the arena and you've seen them rolling their wings to the left and right to about 70-90 degrees. You figured this out...hey, they're looking down to see who's below they might be able to jump. Did you know that if you roll your wings and look down and note if the guy is ahead of your 3-9 line then you are behind him? That's kinda cool info to have if you plan to get in on him. You end up on his 6 instead of him pointed right at you with a possible HO situation.

Ok, a quick review. The 3-9 is an invisible line you draw from your eyeballs (in the cockpit) out to the center of each wingtip and from there out into infinity (as far as you can see). Anyone you see ahead of the invisible line is in front of you. Anyone you see behind that line is in back of you. Remember this...AHEAD of line and you're BEHIND them. BEHIND the line and they're BEHIND you. The only that is not true is when you are head on at a merge.

Putting the 3-9 line into real time spiral climb tactics, and you can use any of the previously mentioned ways others have mentioned in this thread, and you use your views to take the dude behind you into a spiral climb until you have turned around him in the climb enough to get behind him or place him in line or ahead of your 3-9 line. At that point your merely roll over and pull right onto his 6.  Simple and effective but it must be practiced. It was also mentioned if you can place the dude at your 3-9 line in a turn he cannot "pull" enough to get his guns on you without stalling away. BTW, the spiral climb might also be called, "the rope a dope" manuever because folks fall for it over and over without realizing they're being set up to get sent to the Tower.

Hope this helps.

Ren
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Offline Sonicblu

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 02:28:18 PM »
Thanks Ren for the visual this helps me alot. Off to practice

Offline Steve

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2008, 04:03:26 PM »
A nifty and easy tip  is missing from this thread. To give your opponent the mirage that he can get a shot you can start your spiral climb at a shallow angle, let him close the range but not under 800-1k. Then steepin your climb enough to be able to match his climb speed as you tighten the spiral(turn radius) to keep him trying to pull lead. 

Here's the learned part: learn to judge E states so you know when to drop down for a gun solution.  The trick is to begin to drop down on him before he stalls out, yet after he can pull his nose up for a gun solution of his own. This way, by the time you have your solution, his nose is falling and you have a nice top shot of a slow helpless plane.

This is my favorite tactic. Since the 51 climbs so unremarkably, most pilots will assume they can get up to me(most guys are not great at judging E states), so I spiral rope often.
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Offline Yenny

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 05:30:06 PM »
E .· ` ' / ·. F
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Offline morfiend

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 06:24:16 PM »

Yep, I always start my spiral climbs a little wide to sucker the other guy to follow.  As I climb, my spirals grow progressively tighter, forcing the other guy to pull more lead to get the angle and blowing his energy state in the process.


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 Film!!!    LOL. one of the best ways to rope... :aok

Offline bcadoo

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Re: The spiral climb
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2008, 08:57:19 AM »
The spiral climb is a great choice of maneuver when:

1.  Your opponent's aircraft turns better
2.  You have a significant edge in sustained climb rate

The spiral climb is de rigueur for any 109 pilot, but it doesn't work so well against the Spit XVI (which accounts for more than half the spitfires flown in the main arena).

I fly the 16 alot, and when I fight 109's I try and go left.  Depending on the pilot I can usually maintain advantage to the left, to the right they seem to hold their own.
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