Author Topic: Axis After Action Report  (Read 1818 times)

Offline lowZX14

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Axis After Action Report
« on: October 20, 2008, 07:26:36 AM »
All,

I would like to get a feel, especially from the squad CO's, as to what you think went well and what you think went wrong in last Friday nights' FSO.  I'll post my comments in a little bit, I just wanted to get this thing going.

Remember, whatever you put down here can only help future CiC's, other squad CO's, and yourself in future FSO's.

Thanks again for everyone's cooperation and effort in Frame 3.
lowZX14
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 11:28:45 AM »


III/JG11 reported for duty with 8 members of 7./JG11 Stampf, RMRider, VonMessa, 33jtr, Choppit, Bino, Canukk, and RRaine.  10 members of 8./JG11 were present consisting of Fencer, Gavagai, Boingg, Bubi, Shamus, Zud, Vilkas, TheBug, Tuexc123, and PDM.  III Gruppe also had some members of other Gruppen present along with other Jagdwaffe pilots, these included Dolfo, and Hobo.

Schwarms were assigned as follows:

Stampf / Dolfo / RMrider / VonMessa / 33jtr / Choppit

Bino / Canukk

Fencer / Hobo / Gavagai / Boingg

Bubi / Shamus / ZUD / Vilkas

TheBug / PDM / Tuxc123 / RRaine

III Gruppe was assigned to the Bf 109 G2.  We were based at A12 and tasked with bomber escort for the lead attack against A5 by VF-6.  A second attack by LCA was to go in unescorted.  We were also tasked with sending a diversionary sweep to the south of A5 to set off radar warnings in that area.  Bino and Canukk were assigned this mission.

The Gruppen taxied from the hangar and formed up on the runway awaiting the order to take off.









We were ordered to roll at T+3:31.  At T+5:26 Bino and Canukk were dispatched on their way.

We had to hustle to catch the lead strike as they had leveled at 10k and were a half sector ahead of us.  We eventually pulled up even with them.  The communication with the primary and secondary strikes led much to be desired.  The lead strike was 3 sets of Ju88s. 



The secondary strike which was to be unescorted was 5 times that number of bombers.  They appeared to be under the impression that they were to be escorted as well.  This was against the orders as delivered.  Yet the ‘other’ 109 group who’s leader was Jim Beam (This turns out to have been the 367th Dynamite Gang) was not even mentioned as part of our strike package nor are they listed in the orders at all!  So we ended up with 30+ Bf 109 G2s escorting 3 vics of Ju-88s.  Peachy.  However it didn’t turn out all bad.

We continued to close on A5 from due east.  At T+14:42 we resumed climb from 20k.

At T+21:34 Spitfires were sighted quite a bit lower than us east of the target.  The Dynamite Gang engaged them.  There were 8 Spitfires, which were the AKs and they were in Spit 9s.  Shortly there after more Spits came in and Stampf took his Schwarm in after them.

At T+23:09 Hobo called out a Spit crossing just below us at 2 oclk.  I spilt Sed and dropped on him.  He broke hard right and then dove for the deck, I let him go. 

PDM called more high spits from the south, and there were a ton of them at 26k.
The original Spit9s which the 367th had engaged, were all over the bombers of VF-6.



The Spits came into view at 27k, there were two groups.  I turned my Schwarm which was at 21k back north.



At T+25:50 a real cool sight occurred.  Bino’s, Stampf’s and My Schwarms were all maneuvering independently in relatively tight groupings working the “Spit Problem”.

At T+26:06 Stampf called “Dolfo to me, everyone else stay up”.  I was trying to get the LCA bomber formation to tell us where they were so we could cover their attack on the field, no luck.

At around T+28:20 Stampf got jumped by a Spit V and went down.  Bubi, Shamus, RMRider and Von went down to help Dolf and Stampf.

Bug and my schwarms had climbed up to 28 and 27k respectively over the field.  The Spitfires which had loomed over us disappeared south.

At T+28:50 The LCA CO finally replied that they were “just north e of trgt”.

At T+30:15 I realized Stampf was down and discoed.  I ordered Bug to disengage NE with my Schwarm to close on the second bomber strike.  Which then reported they were in 9 11 fp 1 northwest of the target… yeah, right.  at this point I knew we were in for a long night trying to cover these guys.  I ordered everyone not engaged to get clear and get alt north, but cover those guys engaged and in trouble.

At this point the wandering high Spits reappeared NE of the base at 28k, which was fine as the bombers were northwest of the base or so they said.  I informed the bomber leader of the fact that we had 2 schwarms closing on him, and that there were Spits high near the target.

Bino reported at T+32:43 that he and Canukk were chasing a dozen spitfires NE of A5 at 30k.  Meanwhile Von, Rider, Shamus, Bubi, Zud and Vilkas were engaged somewhere low near A5 helping each other and working clear.

At T+33:16 I called off the attempt to rendezvous with the bombers as they were not giving accurate position reports, we turned back east for the spits which Bino was reporting.

At T+33:45 Bino called he was attacking 3 spits he had broken off the main group.  My schwarm and Bug’s schwarm were closing rapidly.

At T+33:51 I got icons on the spits co-alt.. finally.  I lead the two schwarms in on the 10 or so spits.



They were Spitfire 5s!  Just as I called that out in response to Gava’s question I took a shot at one and missed as he crossed in front of me.  These were not the ones that Bino was on, but the 353rd FG.  It was 10 Spits vs 8 109s, we had them outnumbered!  Shot at another from dead astern and he slipped right out of my sights.  I note in the film that we were all 100 mph faster than the spits at this time, very nice. 

At T+35:37 the second strike leader said he was entering V96 dar ring.  I took another shot at a spit which broke hard getting only a single 20mm hit on him, then went to help Bug.  I chased one for 10 seconds which had been on Bug and took a long burst at him and missed.  Hobo called one on his six and Gava and I both went to help.



At T+37:06 Gavagai called contact with the bombers NE of the target.



I got good hits on a Spit V which was making a run on Hornet forcing him to break off.  I then went after one which was on Choppit, and blew his left wing off causing him to flip violently to the left.  Man that had to be a heck of a ride from inside that a/c.



Meanwhile Choppit was on a SpitV which was making a run at a set of bombers.



At T+39:20 JG11 formed around the bombers and covered them as they dropped and continued out south.



A general dogfight continued in the area of the target by some members of JG11 while about half followed the bombers out to the south.  Then the bombers did something unexpected..  they turned back north to make another run.

At T+40:40 The bombers called they were coming back north for another run.  Hey why not, you got the hottest JG around covering you, don’t mind the fact that we were already operating outside of our orders and getting low on gas and ammo.

At T+42:20 P-38s engaged the bombers as they were steadying up on a northern course.   I closed in on the lead 38 as he attempted a lead turn on a set of Ju88s.  As I got in firing position he did an outside barrel roll to the left until he was cockpit down and dove away.  I let the amateur barnstormer go and went back up.  I went after another which was on a smoking single Ju-88.  He blew the bomber up with one burst before I got within guns range.  I followed him off to the left, chopped power and took a shot as he rolled and dove



He was missing control surfaces and leaking and I didn’t follow him down.  I did a stupid thing then, I looped up dropping my speed down to 120 knts to gain altitude back to 14k.  If there had been a bad guy anywhere near I would have been meat on the table.

Also at T+44:40 we had a lot of our guys at less than 10k chasing after single spits.  It appears that they were covering each other, and we did have 5 or 6 guys still with the bombers.  A high 38 made a run on a trailing singleton and paid for it.



to be continued..
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 12:08:27 PM by Fencer51 »
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Fencer51

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 11:29:49 AM »
Continued..

Oh did I mention it?  The bombers turned back and made a third run at A5.  Yeah, three passes.

T+47:40ish  At this point there were 7 of our guys lower than 12k over the target, most below 10k.  There were also 9 of us at 17k or higher with bombers. excellent.  The guys down low were all relatively grouped together too, nice.

Boingg and Bino chased a single spit down and way from the bombers.  The spitie ran for the hard deck leaking radiator fluid.

At T+48:54 I in my old age and with great wisdom ordered that JG11 should be getting out east to avoid engaging rearmed and refueled bad guys.  Oh yeah the bombers finally gave up their race track pattern around A5 and turned east.  Most of the Gruppen were down to 30 minutes of fuel.  A couple who had not taken the drop tank as ordered were starting to get critical.  Not everyone was listening though, or fairly, they were too engaged to get clear, yet they did not speak up on vox.  Calls for Shamus to watch it, were the first clue.  Shamus and Bubi were low near the enemy base.



A couple of the guys headed back to help out.  RMrider and Zud for two.  Bubi got hoed and developed an oil leak.  He was able to ditch near an Afrika Korp encampment and returned to the Gruppe by nightfall.

RMrider and VonMessa diverted directly to A6 while the rest of us, minus Bubi, kept with the bombers.

At T+52:04 the lead bomber called out enemy contacts over V98 heading for A5.  Right toward us.  Reportedly at 12k.. uh no off by a factor of almost 2.



I called for anyone with a good shot to hit the B-24s, which were at 20k.  5 sets with P-38 escort.



The B-24s took one look at us and dove hard, we did not make a serious attempt to engage them but Rider, who was lower got 1 B-24.

At T+56:36 I called for JG11 to pancake at A6 for rearm/refuel.

Shamus and Vilkas both towered out at this time, having landed successfully.  Boingg wrecked his 109G2 after a successful landing.  And RMrider practiced landing with his flaps.



Thirteen of us were left with intact aircraft and were in the process of rearming and refueling.  By my count that means we had lost 3 a/c excluding Bubi who was able to sit it down at V98.  Of course one of those was my wingman.  Whom I lost complete contact with and didn’t even see go down.  That’s two weeks in a row for me, I suck.  Canukk broke a wing on the rearm pad, making two a/c we lost on the rearm.  That’s 10% of our force gents, crap happens but we do need to be careful.



T+65:11 I explained what was going to happen.  That the B-24s were rearming and that they and their 38s would be back here (at A6) soon.  There was some doubt but having done this the previous week, I felt that they would stay true to form and hit A6 again.

We had 12 109G2s left who were getting altitude east of A6.  Fencer, Gavagai, Doflo, RMrider, VonMessa, Zud, Bino, 33jtr, RRaine, Tuxc123, TheBug and PDM.

At T+68:16 V98 started flashing.  We were quite spread out with three of us at 14k, 6 at 9kish and 3 just up out of A6.

At T+69:45 we sighted dots west of A6.  A single spitfire was sighted.  There were 3 spitfires and they did not want to play.  So we turned back west and continued to climb.

At T+73:24 Maxy came running back east with half of the production run of P-39Ds chasing him, along with some P-38s and a few Spits.  We were all 16k or higher and most were over 20k.

At T+74:37 a bazillion dots came in behind Maxy.  I went after a P-38 at co-alt to my 2oclk.  I missed but Von got a good burst on him smoking his left engine.  I continued on him and shot at him as he attempted a high angle shot on TheBug.



He smoked TheBug and I continued shooting mgs at him but he broke low and I let him go.  Something got Bino.  There were 15+ bad guys at this time and we were down to 10.  I followed a P-39 around and he climbed up under Dolfo, who I warned,   I got good hits on him causing a white and a black cloud from his fuselage and a piece of his elevator.



He went down and I did not pursue, figuring he was out of the fight.  Good thing too because two of his buddies in P-39s were on me shooting.  Two made shooting passes at me which I avoided due to a timely chk6 call from Gavagai.  A third was 1k back turning in.  One of the initial pair did some neat maneuvering and ended up 200 behind me.



PDM went down at this time.  Their numbers were beginning to tell on us.  I took hits from the one 200 back and his buddy was 600 back waiting for me to do something stupid.  I kept rolling and turning.  The one at 400 started shooting with me in a right bank as his buddy slid out of the way.  Gavagai appeared and shot at the trailer just as he opened up on me forcing him off of me.



Then he took shots at the one 200 back forcing him to break off.  As he broke into Gava I broke down and out away from him.  I got very lucky there, if he had not appeared I was in a world of hurt.

Dolfo went down at about this time.

At T+78:30  I called for JG11 to disengage west as we were “going to loose the whole damn squadron”.

Another P-39 bounced me and Gava shot him off.

At T+80:52 VonMessa was low over the base with several bad guys.  The high dots seemed to have vanished, they all went low.  Rider Gava and I went after the low bandits with Von at A6.  I bounced two P-39s which broke into me.  As I was doing 440 I ignored them and went after two others.

Zud got rammed and bailed successfully.  I dove on one P-39 which was trailing Rider and he broke with a nice negative G bobble.

Gava got one and I shot up another that was pulling up into him just as 33jtr came screaming through from on high, scared the crap out of me at the time.



He spun out and I let him go and started climbing again.

At T+85:00 The B-24s and their 38 escorts reappeared. Coming in at 8k from the south.  I made a run at one from his low 11 oclk and he had a gunner.



I got hits on his left wing, belly and tail but didn’t down him.  A P-38 made a pass on me as I was doing this as well.  The B-24 started smoking but he went on and evidently made it home.



I was unwilling to throw myself after the two bombers from astern when they obviously had gunners and I had only a single 20mm.  I pulled around to the east and dove to get my speed back up.  As I got heading north again a P-38 made a run on Gavagai and I pulled up and left into him.  Gavagai immediately called out another P-38 on my 6 which I never saw,  but the film shows him at my high 12 which was actually level as I was going vertical.




to be continued...
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Fencer51

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 11:32:30 AM »
Continued.. again..

As I came over the top I continued to track the P-38.  Of course I was questioning the call as I had not seen this guy, but both Gava and Bino were adamant  and I continued to protest I didn’t see one behind me.  Sometimes ya gotta let the guy in front of you go and TRUST those who can see better.  I wanted that P-39 BAD, as they say, I had my fangs out and was drooling bad.   But, as I started back up after the P-38, I gave it up and broke right.  Good thing too as that guy they were warning me about was now 1k above me and dropping down toward me.  I broke back left as he dropped down 400 behind me.



I broke down and left to force an overshoot, and found another P-38 in front of me that I took a snap shot at as I was going almost straight down.  I pulled out and took it back right and went after this 38 which was making a run on the base.  My other P-38 buddy was back on me at 600+ and the one in front was at 200.



The one in back broke off right and I followed the lead P-38 through the ack over the field.  Bino, who was in the tower, called I was clear and I kept after this guy as he went over the base and into the hills south.  Gava warned Tuxc of one on him, and I smoked mine’s engine as RMrider called he was in on a low P-38.  As my P-38 broke right I got good hits on him at darn near point blank range.


I must have killed the pilot because he blew up soon after that burst.



As I was all but out of cannon (18 rnds) I returned to A6 to rearm.  RMrider was chasing the one who had been on me out over the water, with Gavagai and Tuxc watching from higher.  At this point a second P-38 went after Rider and Gavagai called it out warning him.  Tuxc called out he was on the 38 on Rider’s six.  At this point the action got outside of my film’s range, as I was rearming.

At T+89:45 I started rolling again after rearming.  From the vox calls it appears that the guys were teaming up on 2 P-38s, Von and Rider on one which crashed as Rider got close.  Tuxc and Gava were on another which was smoking and down an engine.  It too crashed.  There were 30 minutes left and we were basically clear, it was time to call it.  We all landed and celebrated with a cold beer and a warm sheep.

Six of us were left, 33jtr, RMrider, VonMessa, Tuxc123, Gavagai and Fencer.


Problems we had..

1. A second escort squadron showed up and was not part of the orders.
2. The LCA were calling us everything but Mickey Mouse because we were not covering them, although that was not our ordered mission.  We did attempt to cover them after VF-6 went in but they had such poor communication that we could not locate them even after searching the area they said they were in.  Then we did cover them as they made 3 runs on the base and retired east while more and more fighters came in on them.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 12:12:31 PM by Fencer51 »
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline lowZX14

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »
Great AAR Fencer, and wonderful pics as always. 

The 2nd escort squadron was left out by accident.  They were told in an e-mail and pm's and before the FSO to communicate with you their presence since you were still the escort leader and I thought they would have used some sense and escorted the LCA.  I think I may have even told them to escort them.  The original plan was to escort VF-6 which should have had more than 3 formations and drag the CAP away from target and low so that LCA could come right on in and hit it, that was before we found out about 'Dynamite' Gang.
The communication was a problem all night, and I'm sorry to anyone who thought that I was trying to get bossy with it.  I just knew that mission success depended on everyone communicating in their own separate strike packages and then back to myself so I could get a general idea of the 4 different strikes going on + 4 defensive packages + gv battle (no comms), but that will all be addressed in my AAR.

Great job JGIII, you guys did your mission and then some.  Outstanding leadership and great squad comms proved valuable as always.
lowZX14
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Offline Fencer51

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 12:11:11 PM »
Yeah COMMS are vital...

Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline Stampf

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 12:24:03 PM »
Outstanding AAR, Herr Major.  :salute
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Offline RATTFINK

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 12:38:30 PM »
The VF-6 upped four flights of JU88's from A12,

Lost one after take off,

gained alt., went nose on target (A5),

two JU88's got slaughtered by spits before making the field

I got two objects then died


I hope we drew a lot of the cons off so that the other set of bombers could make it in.
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Offline lowZX14

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 01:01:38 PM »
That was good RATTFINK, to tell you the truth, that is what I was expecting to happen.  You guys come in, hopefully get some of the field down,  :pray that nobody gets lost even though it's almost guaranteed in any bombers, and clear the way for the bigger squad to come in. 

Great job with a terrible mission, but it almost had to work out that way.
lowZX14
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Offline RATTFINK

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 01:57:32 PM »
That's what I thought was going to happen.  Glad to help in anyway. 

Some have to sacrifice so others may succeed.

"So much was given up, but as often happens, we learn to persevere and to become stronger because of our sacrifices" -No idea, but I have heard this before.
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Offline apcampbell

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2008, 02:09:26 PM »
 :salute to JG11. We figured we were in for it. The 353rd did it's utmost to stay as high as possible and find those blasted bombers, but in the end we knew our Spit V's were inadequate to the task. (BTW, that lone Spit Hobo called out was me. I got distracted and separated from the rest of the 353rd. Managed to avoid a couple of diving attacks from you before getting downed though-that's wife-ack for ya!)

Our defense of A5 had communication problems as well, but in the end, it was fun and always a learning experience when the infamous JG11 is on the field of battle.  :salute
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Offline Becinhu

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 03:52:22 PM »
CLAIM JUMPERS upped out of a64 in 22 c202s for a defensive cap over a64. We were assisted by a flight of 190 a5s flown by UNFORGIVEN. We were expecting high bombers escorted by p38s to hit from the south. AT around t+30 I began to suspect a ropundabout attack and took my fighters east of a64 to patrol over the water near a small chain of islands. At T+45 one of my forward souts reported contact low on the dek headed west. I vectored the force to intercept. I spotted approxiamately 10 a20s flying wavetop level into a64 unescorted. Many in my squadron were questioning the ability of the c202 due to its lack of cannon. I assured them that the plane was quite capable and ordered the attack on the bombers. Many of the a20s dropped their wing bombs over the water before reaching target, they were the only ones to survive our first pass. Once over a64 UNFORGIVEN joined the fight with their hard-hitting a5s. All of the a20s met untimely ends over a64 minus 2 who eggressed south with myself and HacksawX (UNFORGIVEN) in pursuit. My 202 was unable to close with the a20s on the deck so I provided support while HacksawX dispatched one a20 and closed on the last one. With land in sight we were engaged by roughly 6 p40es. Both of us met our ends to the swarming Ameican fighters.
With all said and done CLAIM JUMPERS achieved 19 kills and 37 assists in a plane that was considered inferior by my guys until they started to down planes in it.
 :salute
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 04:36:49 PM »
Those A-20s weren't meant to be unescorted. VMF-251 got caught up by 109s of JG2 en route to bomb C50 and was forced to engage when the 109s decided to roll in on us (slow F4Fs + 109G-2s with a 5-7k altitude advantage. Whether we ran or fought it out we weren't going to be meeting the 332nd). The Air Raiders bumped into part of the strike on A9, I believe. As a result Neither escort squadron reached the rally point, otherwise you'd have had ten F4Fs and about as many P-40s to contend with.
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Offline 442w30

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 09:36:10 PM »
 :salute  Fencer on the AAR.  wow

I can second what Sax said.  Air Raiders ran into a Stuka group that we attacked until its escort(?) intervened. The escort were C202s.  Soon we found ourselves low and slow in P40s being BnZ'd to death by the C2s.  Then the 190s arrived!   :lol

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Axis After Action Report
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 11:51:42 PM »
Ju-87s escorted by C.202s? :huh  What punishment! :lol
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