Author Topic: Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux  (Read 131 times)

Offline Jekyll

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« on: February 23, 2001, 11:10:00 PM »
Funked, I'm not sure but I THINK it was you who questioned the NACA rollrate tables posted a few weeks ago, on the basis that we were not sure just what testing method was used.

Well, I've had the opportunity to read through the NACA Report 868 of 1947, and the following is contained on page 135 of the report.

"Flight Investigations - Procedure for Determining Roll Performance

Description of Maneuver - The rolling performance of an airplane usually is determined during abrupt aileron rolls made from laterally level, trimmed, straight flight at different indicated airspeeds.  Power for level flight ordinarily is used at speeds below the level-flight speed obtainable awith maximum continuous power; above this speed rolls are made during steady diving flight with maximum continuous power. .....  In a given series of tests, the altitude should be maintained approximately constant.

At each selected speed five rolls in each direction, with a different control deflection for each roll, usually are sufficient. ......  At high speeds the maximum control deflection may have to be restricted in order to ensure that the aerodynamic forces on the ailerons and on other parts of the airplane do not exceed the structural design limits.

Each test roll is made by moving the control abruptly to some predetermined deflection and by holding the control at that deflection until the maximum rolling velocity occurs.  Until maximum rolling velocity occurs, the rudder is held in its original trim position. ........."

The thing I found most interesting about this info, was that it matches almost exactly the completely unscientific tests I did on the AH aircraft:  5 individual rolls in each direction from trimmed level flight.  One major difference is that whilst NACA uses a continuous dive to generate airspeeds greater than normal level-flight speed with max power, I used a dive to the designated airspeed, followed by level flight at that speed to generate the rollrate info.

So, for what its worth, at least now we know how the NACA came to evaluate the rolling performance of all those WW2 vintage warbirds.  



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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

funked

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »
Cool!

What I wonder is how they actually measured rolling velocity.  They don't mention a stopwatch, so I wonder if they actually had an instrument for this?

Offline Tac

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2001, 09:18:00 PM »
The pilot's seat was shaped like a toilet and they had a camera film on the bottom of the bowl filming upwards.

The pilot of course, flew naked.

With this high tech approach, they could determine the roll rate of any plane by measuring the film of the pilot's testicles swing when the airplane banked.

Gotta love it when nature helps man out.  

Offline Laika

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2001, 09:55:00 PM »
LOL  

funked

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2001, 10:08:00 PM »
ROFL

Offline Jekyll

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2001, 01:21:00 AM »
Actually Tac might not be too far off the mark.

I seem to recall that when measuring G loadings during pullouts from high speed dives there is often a term 'apple stretch' used.

It finally makes sense to me now  

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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

Offline Jigster

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Info for Funked: Rollrates Part Deux
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2001, 03:56:00 AM »
Funked, they had form drum plotters in the planes hooked into the vaccum system.

Measurements were calculated from raw data obtained in flight and processed on the ground for whatever purposes. Recordings were based on what the plane was actually doing, although I believe by that point they had installed measuring devices that could record stick forces in relation to flight data.

The pilots, other then doing precision flying needed to obtain the results, didn't have to mess with anything else while in flight.

I would suggest asking Badboy on how exactly the measurements were taken as he would probably know better then anyone in the area, but the recording instruments were fairly precise, as it tended to get hotrodding test pilots in trouble at Wright Field because everything they did was recorded by these instruments and the people working on the data weren't to keen on processing extra data  

- Bessy